Saints and petitionary prayer

[pianistclare]

Not cliche. If you can’t discuss without getting angry, that’s enough for me.
If you don’t want belief, fine… But don’t try to tell me and billions of other people that we’re just delusional.
I’m out.

 

[adgloriam]

adgloriam:

Who do you think you are dealing with?]

You don’t want me to answer that.

You are dealing with the host of saints and angels and with God.

God who will already know if He will grant our prayer.

God changes His mind. God regrets.

Any petitionary prayer we make to a saint is already known to God

Gods awareness beforehand doesn’t change the above mentioned 2 facts.

if He will grant our prayer.

Does not depend exclusively on intercession.

For praying to a saint to make sense it must be the case

It’s disrespectful to the “host of saints” and angels reducing their role.

would deny our petitionary prayer but for the intercession of a saint.

Reduces petition prayer to getting what you want. Reduces intercession to getting what you want. [When both petition and intercession are more about getting what God wants for you, not what you want from Him.]

KevinK:

Can it be the case that God would have denied a petitionary prayer but granted it because of the intercession of a saint?

Above is my simple question.

Don’t reduce your own question by omitting your own 2 preceding false assertions.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Throughout the Old Testament psalms and texts say God is slow to anger and that God is merciful.
There are texts where God was going to bring retribution down on His people . A prophet is sent to tell them to repent, and to recount prophesies given by God.

Jonah, as a prophet, a reluctant one, first runs from God, ends up in a storm in a boat, gets thrown overboard so as to save the boat and it’s sailors,
gets put into the belly of a big fish, then decides to do as God wills.

Jonah goes to the town God wants to hear his words, of retribution. Those in the town immediately fast, do penance and wear sack cloth in the hope God won’t bring down this retribution.

Now Jonah goes outside the city, sits and watches and waits for the event he has warned will happen.

It’s hot, God grows a castor oil plant for him for shade. Next day God sends a worm to eat the plant and makes it very hot for Jonah, who is still sitting and waiting and seems disappointed with God the town still stands.

In the Old Testament we read of the real relationship God has with His people. And of times prayer and request has been granted because of the intercession of holy people or indeed all the people.

In the New Testament Jesus says the only sign this generation will get is that of Jonah, when they ask for signs.

Surely many of the Old Testament people would be Saints

 

[adgloriam]

1. Any petitionary prayer we make to a saint is already known to God who will already know if He will grant our prayer.
2. For praying to a saint to make sense it must be the case that sometimes God would deny our petitionary prayer but for the intercession of a saint.

@Roseeurekacross I think the above numbered sentences 1) and 2) constitute sins to some extent. Although very subtly, not directly nor evidently. Here some systematic Hamartiology would be required to actually p(name removed by moderator)oint what is wrong with the 2 statements themselves [This is beyond my abilities, but seems an interesting exercise, since the statements seem to proclaim good yet contain bad at least by omission and incompleteness or probably against truth for being misguiding.]

That is why the 2 statements “feel” unsettling at first glance yet it is hard to say exactly why. [They have the usual “protestant/heretic” twist to them in an unusual way.]

 

[JamalChristophr]

James 5:16

 

[KevinK]

Surely sentence 1 is self evident for an omniscient God. How could this possibly be construed as a sin. Do you believe God doesn’t know the future?

 

[De_Maria]

Any petitionary prayer we make to a saint is already known to God who will already know if He will grant our prayer. For praying to a saint to make sense it must be the case that sometimes God would deny our petitionary prayer but for the intercession of a saint. My question: Can it be the case that God would have denied a petitionary prayer but granted it because of the intercession of a saint?

Yes.

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. 8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: