Saints in Ecstacy... Wierd Stuff

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New to the forums and in need of help. Although I’m usually able to find answers, I couldn’t find an answer for this one. A Protestant directed me to a website. sxws.com/charis/relics12.htm The main point of discussion from this article was that it mentions how Catholic saints and doctors of the church do strange things when in “ecstacy.” It described how they imposed disturbing disciplines upon themselves and even “sexual” encounters with Jesus. Is this true and if so, how do we explain it? I don’t know if these are truthful quotes, taken out of context, or just plain lies. I could really use some help to answer my friend. I also posted this in the Ask an Apologist section, but I think I did it wrong because it was my first post. So, if you end up seeing two threads with the same title, that’s why. Thanks for the help!!!
 
I was reading through some of his writings on his various articles and he lost me at “Christ as cookie.”

I also read some of the link you provided and found it dubious at best. I would not address such issues as was raised in it because they are undocumented, deeply disrespectul and generally wacky. The writer needs to gain some intellectual honesty.

There have been reports of unusual behavior from some of the Saints, but an anti-Catholic fundamentalist is not a reliable source of information. A person is just as likely to find depth in a Jack Chick comic book.

I would dismiss the whole point without much better historical documentation.

As far as how to procede with such a person, check out the CA website (linked as “Home” at the top of this page. They have written some fine articles in “This Rock” which is now archived.
 
Saints did not do sexual things with Jesus! That is blatant lies,get any book about saints and you will see that these people falsify things to suit there own agenda which is to slander the Church.God Bless
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
Saints did not do sexual things with Jesus! That is blatant lies,get any book about saints and you will see that these people falsify things to suit there own agenda which is to slander the Church.God Bless
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And yet, the language that many of the saints used to describe their communion with God is remarkably intimate and sensual. Check out St. Theresa of Avila, in particular.

The fact that language expresses spiritual realities analogously is a point often lost on people. Those not familiar with the context of a particular quote can easily be led to all sorts of false conclusions. There doesn’t have to be any malice involved. If a non-Catholic were to read Theresa’s writings about her heart being inflamed by the love of God and pierced by an angel, they might suspect some funny things are going on.

Not that intentional anti-catholicism doesnt actively twist these things out of context, but I think that it is good to acknowledge that the saints’ passionate love of Christ can be seen as scandalous by the casual reader.

Keith
 
Considering that the pure sexual act is a very real physical example of holy unity, I don’t find it disturbing at all that Saints would describe their experiences in such sensual ways. Talk of physical sex with Jesus is another matter entirely, of course.

Pure, loving sexual union between a man and a women a gift from God, and in fact a direct participation with God in the act of giving life. God has seen fit to give us some of the most powerful human bonds of love through and with such an act, and it’s likely in my mind that this act, at least on an emotional and sensual level, most closely approximates direct contact with God. I see absolutely nothing perverse in this; sex is a pure and holy thing, and, properly done, is in fact a Sacrament in the real sense of marriage.

While it may seem weird at first, when you really sit and think about it the sensual descriptions make perfect sense. There is nothing to be ashamed of in this. God gave us these senses for us to better glorify Him and understand Him. It only makes sense that direct understanding and glorification of God would be experienced through those very same senses.
 
Thanks for the helpful words. I told my friend for the time being that I figured they were probably taking things out of context. Clearly, that author had malicious intent (not unlike Jack Chick as one of you mentioned). But, not knowing enough about the sources, I had no idea how to respond to stories of saints eating feces to obtain some kind of enlightenment. I think the sexual imagery does make some sense, as several of you said. I suspect the quotes are based in truth, but just taken way out of context and misinterpretted. God bless…
 
I once heard someone, whose name I can’t remember, say that he looked at the bile and vitriol that is hurled at the Catholic Church unjustly.

He looked at who it was who piled on in these attacks, and it included materialists, atheists, humanists, and the collective known as the culture of death. And he realized that if all of the fingers of evil are pointing to the Catholic Church to try to destroy it, then this must be the dwelling place of Christ.

I agree with this.
 
Keith Strohm:
And yet, the language that many of the saints used to describe their communion with God is remarkably intimate and sensual. Check out St. Theresa of Avila, in particular.

The fact that language expresses spiritual realities analogously is a point often lost on people. Those not familiar with the context of a particular quote can easily be led to all sorts of false conclusions. There doesn’t have to be any malice involved. If a non-Catholic were to read Theresa’s writings about her heart being inflamed by the love of God and pierced by an angel, they might suspect some funny things are going on.

Not that intentional anti-catholicism doesnt actively twist these things out of context, but I think that it is good to acknowledge that the saints’ passionate love of Christ can be seen as scandalous by the casual reader.

Keith
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It is also helpful when reading to take into context the “time” the saint lived in and where. “Sensusal language”, that is descibing both sex and bodily functions were not considered by our forebears in many places to be out of line. To this very day certain words which in English would be looked at as totally improper or permissible are used by other nationalities without that onus. While the name of Jesus or Christ uttered as an expletive would be a far more serious matter than it is taken here. The problem is that most of us when reading about other people in other places automatically assume that our habits, our customs and our way of speaking today and at home are the “same” - they are not.
 
Read the Theology of the Body wherein God, the Holy Trinity is the first and best example of the communion of souls. It isn’t sexual, but it is more than a hug.

There is also the fact that when a married couple truly and freely embraces in the conjugal sense, we are but seeing through a veil dimly of the actual union with our creator. Sounds quasi-sexual but isn’t.

This of course is when you see sexual intercourse as being similar to the Eucharist – total self-donation. (Honestly sex is much better with the Pope – so to speak;) .)

Does this mean we will be having sex with God? No! But the intimate and close nature of our communion of souls will be more ecstatic than our marital union. Holy, Holy, Holy Lord!

Also, one can consider that women religous are “brides of Christ” they do have a special connection to our Lord, but that site is blatantly and totally anti-Catholic. They try very hard to show odd and aberrant facts. Heck they have two thousand years of documented faith to sift through and to corrupt.

I have read St. Faustina’s diary about Divine Mercy and I am reading St. Therese of the Child Jesus(of Lisieux) or the Little Flower and neither of the brides of Christ have any kind of odd or sexual misbehavior. They do have worse penances than we would do, but I am not sure that the severe penance is actual all that helpful. I would just commit a lot sin.

Try to always look for good Catholic info when you read from any site that questions or attests that there can be NO salvation in the Catholic church. I grew up a Baptist and I would dare say that everything I was told about Cathlocism was a blatant lie.
 
Good answers. Thanks! For clarification, my friend didn’t really subscribe to everything about that site. He doesn’t believe that Catholicism is a cult or anything like that. He was just interested in the part about the saints’ behavior.
 
Keith Strohm:
And yet, the language that many of the saints used to describe their communion with God is remarkably intimate and sensual. Check out St. Theresa of Avila, in particular.

The fact that language expresses spiritual realities analogously is a point often lost on people. Those not familiar with the context of a particular quote can easily be led to all sorts of false conclusions. There doesn’t have to be any malice involved. If a non-Catholic were to read Theresa’s writings about her heart being inflamed by the love of God and pierced by an angel, they might suspect some funny things are going on.

Not that intentional anti-catholicism doesnt actively twist these things out of context, but I think that it is good to acknowledge that the saints’ passionate love of Christ can be seen as scandalous by the casual reader.

Keith
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Good point Keith!

Well hey…anyone here ever read Song of Solomon? I had a buddy who flipped out when he read that. I wouldn’t say that intimate talk of one’s realtionship with God is any more weird than this whole book of the canon accepted by BOTH sides of the fence. It would also point to a very deep mysticism that our modern society might not find easy to reconcile with their sexual mindset.

As usual, the ignorant and angry will twist anything and lie for the rest.
 
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adnauseum:
I once heard someone, whose name I can’t remember, say that he looked at the bile and vitriol that is hurled at the Catholic Church unjustly.

He looked at who it was who piled on in these attacks, and it included materialists, atheists, humanists, and the collective known as the culture of death. And he realized that if all of the fingers of evil are pointing to the Catholic Church to try to destroy it, then this must be the dwelling place of Christ.

I agree with this.
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Me too! This sounds like Catholic Evangelist Tom Rutkoski.
 
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