Saints in Heaven?

[Life4Christ]

I brought up this question last Sunday in my RCIA class, but was not completely satisfied with the answers. I hope you can help clarify.

My question is on the Church’s stance on saints. Does the Church proclaim to “know”, without a shadow of a doubt, that people they proclaim as saints are undoubtedly in heaven? Or does the Church say that through the research of there lives (i.e. miracles, etc.) they found that “more than likely”, or “we believe” that these prople could and/or should be in heaven???

The problem I have is that, even though the church is guided by the Holy Spirit, it is still comprised of men. How can we as humans determine that a soul has entered Heaven? And if the church believes that we as humans determine who is in heaven by researching their lives by some set of guidelines, couldn’t it go the other way as well?? Couldnt the Church determine if someone is in Hell???

If so, wouldnt that mean that we are judging souls?? Implying that we have the power to say who is in Heaven and who is in Hell by how someone lived their life on Earth!?!?

I guess the truth is that I have always belived we should never judge another eternal soul, and how arrogant it would be to play God and say who is in Heavan.

Please help explain this to me so that I might understand it more clearly.

Thanks.
Life4Christ

 

[awalt]

Basically, the Church knows through the Canonization being done by the Pope, with the same understanding/rules as the Cathechism of the Church, which is also infallible because the Pope and Church ae guided by the Holy Spirit:

The pope cannot by solemn definition induce errors concerning faith and morals into the teaching of the universal Church. Should the Church hold up for universal veneration a man’s life and habits that in reality led to [his] damnation, it would lead the faithful into error. It is now theologically certain that the solemn canonization of a saint is an infallible and irrevocable decision of the supreme pontiff. God speaks infallibly through his Church as it demonstrates and exemplifies its universal teaching in a particular person or judges that person’s acts to be in accord with its teaching.

 

[Timidity]

Life4Christ:

Implying that we have the power to say who is in Heaven and who is in Hell by how someone lived their life on Earth!?!?

How does this fit in with Matthew 18:18?

 

[jman507]

I don’t really know too much on the subject of how they come to the conclusion that one is a saint, but it is my idea if they have reason to think that the person had did not die rejecting the faith and lived to a certain point of holiness to think that the mericals are due to the intercession of that person, one could then be lead to the conclusion that the person is a saint. If there isn’t enough evidence of that, then no conclusion could be made if the person is judged to go to heaven or hell.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

Life4Christ:

My question is on the Church’s stance on saints. Does the Church proclaim to “know”, without a shadow of a doubt, that people they proclaim as saints are undoubtedly in heaven? Or does the Church say…“more than likely”, or “we believe” that these prople could and/or should be in heaven???

The Catholic Church knows without a shadow of a doubt that the saints (proclaimed to be) are in heaven.

Life4Christ:

The problem I have is that, even though the church is guided by the Holy Spirit, it is still comprised of men. How can we as humans determine that a soul has entered Heaven?

As humans, we can not determine that a soul has entered Heaven…this includes the Pope. However, we trust that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit to make such determinations. The Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit to canonize saints. The Pope doesn’t determine who the saints are…the Holy Spirit guides the Pope to that determination.

Life4Christ:

And if the church believes that we as humans determine who is in heaven by researching their lives by some set of guidelines, couldn’t it go the other way as well?? Couldn’t the Church determine if someone is in Hell???

The Catholic Church does not determine who is in hell because it does not serve any real purpose. The goal of the Catholic Church as it pertains to the saints is to show earthly examples of how to live a Christ-filled life in accordance to Christ’s intent and therefore assist others in their journey home to Christ’s heavenly glory.

To make determinations of persons in hell would not be a good thing to do. It would give the false impression that the Catholic Church needs to gives examples of how to avoid hell. We are not called to avoid hell, but to attain heaven.

Life4Christ:

If so, wouldn’t that mean that we are judging souls?? Implying that we have the power to say who is in Heaven and who is in Hell by how someone lived their life on Earth!?!?

As stated above, we are not judging the souls…God is. God (via the Holy Spirit) guides the Church. If God was not guiding the Church, then you would be correct.

Life4Christ:

I guess the truth is that I have always belived we should never judge another eternal soul, and how arrogant it would be to play God and say who is in Heavan.

This is the crux of your dilemma. I once heard someone else say that when looking into the Catholic Church, one needs to come to the conclusion that it is either extremely arrogant or completely right. There really is no middle ground when it comes to being a Catholic. I pray your conclusion is that it is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ and incapable of error. If you come to that conclusion…welcome home. If not…you have come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is extremely arrogant.

God Bless you in your journey!

 

[e-catholic]

The process of cononization is a very good tool used by the Church to determine who is a Saint. It is important to understand that this doesn’t just get pulled out of the air. The Pope doesn’t wake up one day and just cannonize a Saint at random.

The process in brief.

1. An examination of the persons life. If warrented the are declared Venerable.
2. One incontrivertable miracle attributed to the intercession of that venerable person. This means that a miracle is examined for any possible earthly explanation. If there is no possible earthly explanation for the said miricle, and no doubt that it was prayed for to that venerable person than this person is Beatified.
3. One more incontrivertable miracle. Cannonization.

Only after these things are complete does the Pope cannonize a Saint.

Does this help with your doubts?

Certainly there are many more Saints than those that are cannonized. We don’t know who they all are, we do know about some of the most holy people of the Church.

 

[Benadam]

this may helpCATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Beatification and Canonization