Salvation and scripture

[minkymurph]

My young fundamentalist friend claims the Catholic Church teaches Protestants go to hell. He claims that Catholics have told him they believe this and the Church teaches there is no salvation outside the Church. My reply was that the Church does not teach all Protestants go to hell. Yes some Catholics believe that but the Church does not teach that. As I understand it, Protestants are not in full communion with the Church as there are teachings they don’t believe in, ie:Mary Mother of God, (although I know Protestants who say they do believe Mary was Mother of God). Therefore, it is less likely that Protestants who truly love God will reach the fulfillment of faith in this life and therefore pass through purgatory. Am I right? My fundamentalist friend obviously does not like this idea and claims purgatory is not in the Bible. Obviously he does not accept Maccabees as inspired but I remember reading in one of the forums it states in scripture St Paul prayed for Onesimus, Philemon’s slave and we know from external evidence that Onesimus had died. Can anyone help me on that? My friend also says that there is no scriptural evidence for the Assumption of Mary. I have a leaflet I picked up in Church about the rosary and it quotes a passage of scripture from the book of Judith in the Old Testament in relation to the Assumption. Can anyone help me to answer this question? My friend claims that something as important as the Assumption would not have been left out of the Bible if it had happened.

 

[contramundum7]

My fundamentalist friend obviously does not like this idea and claims purgatory is not in the Bible.

The word PUrgatory is not in the Bible but the concept of a place of purgation is. Read 1 Cor. 3:13, St. Matthew 18:23, Revelation 21 (no unlcean thing will enter Heaven). another one is St. Matthew 12:32 (forgiveness in the next age).

Obviously he does not accept Maccabees as inspired but I remember reading in one of the forums it states in scripture St Paul prayed for Onesimus, Philemon’s slave and we know from external evidence that Onesimus had died.

Thanks for this info…

My friend also says that there is no scriptural evidence for the Assumption of Mary.

No bones (relics) were ever found for Mary… Obviously, hers would be very valuable to the Church…

[Protestant said] something as important as the Assumption would not have been left out of the Bible if it had happened.

The trinity is not in the Bible (explicitly) and other important things are not there… like true interpretations!!!
The Church was established by Christ to interpret (infallibly) the scriptures that aren’t so easily understood…
Like St. Matthew 12:32… (etc.)

 

[Todd_Easton]

M Obviously he does not accept Maccabees as inspired but I remember reading in one of the forums it states in scripture St Paul prayed for Onesimus, Philemon’s slave and we know from external evidence that Onesimus had died. Can anyone help me on that?

I think you have confused Onesimus and Onesiphorus. In 2 Timothy 1:16-18, St. Paul prays that God might have mercy on Onesiphorus who seems to have died.

My friend also says that there is no scriptural evidence for the Assumption of Mary. … My friend claims that something as important as the Assumption would not have been left out of the Bible if it had happened.

Revelation 11:19 says that the Ark of the Covanant appeared in heaven. Which Covenant do you suppose John was talking about, the Old Covenant or the New Covenant? There is some scriptural support in Luke 1 that the Virgin Mary was regarded as the Ark of the New Covenant. If Revelation 11:19 refers to the Ark of the New Covenant, to the Virgin Mary, then this verse might be scriptural support for Mary’s Assumption.

Revelation 12:1-17 describes a woman in heaven, the mother of a male child destined to rule the nations with a rod of iron, who seems to be called the Word of God elsewhere. (Revelation 19:13-15) This seems to be an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, and consequently to his mother, the Virgin Mary, as the woman. If the woman of Revelation 12:1-17 is the Virgin Mary, then verses 12:1 and 12:14 might be scriptural support for her Assumption.

There are many important things left out of the Bible. Everything Jesus did was important but many things he did were left out of the Bible. (John 21:25) The deaths of St. Paul and most of the Apostles would seem to be important events but they were left out of the Bible, except for St. Peter (John 21:19.) and St. James, the brother of John. (Acts 12:2)

 

[Todd_Easton]

My young fundamentalist friend claims the Catholic Church teaches Protestants go to hell. He claims that Catholics have told him they believe this and the Church teaches there is no salvation outside the Church. My reply was that the Church does not teach all Protestants go to hell. Yes some Catholics believe that but the Church does not teach that. As I understand it, Protestants are not in full communion with the Church as there are teachings they don’t believe in, ie:Mary Mother of God, (although I know Protestants who say they do believe Mary was Mother of God). Therefore, it is less likely that Protestants who truly love God will reach the fulfillment of faith in this life and therefore pass through purgatory. Am I right?

I suggest you read over what the Catechism of the Catholic Church (846-848) says about “Outside the Church there is no salvation.”

You are correct that the Catholic Church does not teach that all Protestants go to hell. Whoever said they did was incorrect.

However, if I understand you correctly, your assertion that all Protestants who go to heaven must first go through purgatory is incorrect. A perfectly holy Protestant will bypass purgatory just like a perfectly holy Catholic.

 

[minkymurph]

I think you have confused Onesimus and Onesiphorus. In 2 Timothy 1:16-18, St. Paul prays that God might have mercy on Onesiphorus who seems to have died.

Thank you for the information. Must look at this again. My original post may have been misleading. I did not mean to suggest that all Protestants pass through Purgatory, those who are Holy do go straight to heaven. We just don’t know who they are as individuals. What I meant was those who lack belief for a variety of reasons but have a love of God are not condemned to hell, but pass through purgatory. As Protestants reject certain beliefs, it is LESS LIKELY they reach the fulfillment of faith in this life. Perhaps this statement is unfair as simply being Catholic is not a guarantee you will reach the fulfillment of faith. I have discussed Rev 12 with my young friends mother, who is a long standing friend of mine. She doesn’t believe Rev 12 is talking about Mary. My comment was there is only one woman I know of who was mother to Christ. Her answer was Rev 12 is for a future time. We did discuss fulfillment in John’s day and future fulfillment. I asked her who she thought the woman in Rev 12 was and she said she didn’t know but she didn’t think it was Mary and it’s for a future time.