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JBPEETZ
Guest
A while back, I heard a priest warn against giving donations to the Salvation Army buckets everywhere at Christmas time since the Salvation Army is anti-catholic. Is that accurate?
Thanks
Thanks
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Dismas2004
Guest
They support March of Dimes, which supports abortion. They are a fundamentalist group of Christians, and yes they are anti-catholic. they operate free drug rehabs in the inner cities, and if you are catholic they deny you going to mass. you have to stay there for the duration, 6-8 weeks!
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Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Oh. that is horrible! I will pray for them,I am shocked.God Bless and thanks for the info!
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asquared
Guest
you have been misinformed. The Salvation Army does not support the March of Dimes, and in most cities has withdrawn from participation in United Way because it wants to distance itself from the questionable organizations and activities funded by UW and the dictatorial policies of UW about how donations are to be spent.
It is true that in the past many local SA congregations combined kettle collections so that some of the money went to funding local “churches” or “parishes” --not their terms, they call the local congregation a corps, in keeping with the military terminology they use. More recently at least in large cities the charitable, rehabilitative and religious functions have been separated if not corporately, then by accounting practice, so that kettle collections and direct mail fundraising supports charitable outreach. You would have to inquire with your local SA leadership about their policy before donating, or before volunteering as a bell-ringer.
It is true that in most of its rehab facilities strict policies are in force in a number of areas, residence and participation in religious services included. This is true of all successful residential rehab programs. SA rehab programs for alcoholics and addicts are some of the best and most successful. they are based on, but go beyond the 12 step model, which itself is faith-based. the evangelization component is and always has been a strong part of their program. They are an evangelistic fundamentalist religion and someone voluntarily agreeing to join one of their programs should accept that going in.
In any residential rehab program the patients are going to have a hard time having access to a priest (like prison) unless it is in a Catholic institution, or some priest has been found to offer his services. If a Catholic addict has a strong enough faith to recognize his need for a priest, one would think he would enter a church-based rehab program. In general a place in a rehab program is hard to come by, especially if court-ordered, and you take what you can get. The failure of the Catholic Church to provide this service can hardly be used to indict SA or other faith-based organizations who do, and who base their programs on their own religion.
source: two relatives who are SA majors in charge of large city SA programs. they were in Manhattan on 9/11 and spent over 2 weeks at ground zero round the clock serving rescue workers and bystanders looking for missing relatives.
It is true that in the past many local SA congregations combined kettle collections so that some of the money went to funding local “churches” or “parishes” --not their terms, they call the local congregation a corps, in keeping with the military terminology they use. More recently at least in large cities the charitable, rehabilitative and religious functions have been separated if not corporately, then by accounting practice, so that kettle collections and direct mail fundraising supports charitable outreach. You would have to inquire with your local SA leadership about their policy before donating, or before volunteering as a bell-ringer.
It is true that in most of its rehab facilities strict policies are in force in a number of areas, residence and participation in religious services included. This is true of all successful residential rehab programs. SA rehab programs for alcoholics and addicts are some of the best and most successful. they are based on, but go beyond the 12 step model, which itself is faith-based. the evangelization component is and always has been a strong part of their program. They are an evangelistic fundamentalist religion and someone voluntarily agreeing to join one of their programs should accept that going in.
In any residential rehab program the patients are going to have a hard time having access to a priest (like prison) unless it is in a Catholic institution, or some priest has been found to offer his services. If a Catholic addict has a strong enough faith to recognize his need for a priest, one would think he would enter a church-based rehab program. In general a place in a rehab program is hard to come by, especially if court-ordered, and you take what you can get. The failure of the Catholic Church to provide this service can hardly be used to indict SA or other faith-based organizations who do, and who base their programs on their own religion.
source: two relatives who are SA majors in charge of large city SA programs. they were in Manhattan on 9/11 and spent over 2 weeks at ground zero round the clock serving rescue workers and bystanders looking for missing relatives.
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Dismas2004
Guest
Sounds good to me, sort of - however I’m going to go with the Social Justice professors at my Catholic College on SA’s support of the March of Dimes. As far as strict residential programs - my cousin is on probabtion - no job - no high school diploma etc… Part of his probabtion is to do rehab. There was only one place that would accept him, SA, and do so for free. Part of the stipulation is that is is residential and later on you can earn the privilege to go out on “pass” with family and so forth. There is one exception to this all - YOU HAVE TO ATTEND THEIR RELIGIOUS SERVICES! You may not go to Mass, have a preist come visit, go to confession, anything untill you can go on pass, which is 2-3 weeks before you are released. So, you can go 5-6 weeks without Mass and confession.
Sorry, to strict for me. Even when I was in prison - I could go to Mass and confession weekly.
As far as it being voluntary - Not to voluntary if that is your only option.
As far as your source, that is good for them - but not for me as a Catholic. Abortion is wrong, plain and simple. If they aren’t fighting against it collectivly - then shame on them and they will get no money from me or anyone else I can talk into it. You can’t be Christian and support abortion! The two are mutaully exclusive!
No matter what they did on 9/11. That is great for them as people and we all appreciate it. But it lends to credence to what they have to say nor to the position of SA and abortion.
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Dismas2004
Guest
How’s this link from the Salvation Army?
It will show you just how wishy washy they are on the issue, all in the name of love. Maybe they need to learn what love is from JPII!
salarmy-mn-nd.org/ab/ab_2.3a.html
and another from another conference
armeedusalut.ca/information/principles.html
Do we see the pattern.
Support for SA = Support for Abortion. That is the same as 9/11!!!
Pax,
Help Stop Abortion - Don’t feed the kettle!
It will show you just how wishy washy they are on the issue, all in the name of love. Maybe they need to learn what love is from JPII!
salarmy-mn-nd.org/ab/ab_2.3a.html
and another from another conference
armeedusalut.ca/information/principles.html
Do we see the pattern.
Support for SA = Support for Abortion. That is the same as 9/11!!!
Pax,
Help Stop Abortion - Don’t feed the kettle!
K
Katholikos
Guest
I don’t donate to other denominations. Salvation Army is a religion – period. Yes, they are anti-Catholic and pro-abortion.
C
Contarini
Guest
I’m dubious of the claim that the SA are pro-abortion. Certainly that evidence has not been presented so far on this thread. The main reason people are boycotting them right now is because of their conservative position on homosexuality. Your Catholic social justice professors may in fact be liberal on this issue (though of course you may know otherwise) and be cloaking their liberal prejudices against the SA in a Catholic garb. I’d be wary of jumping on an anti-SA bandwagon. They do a lot of good and are suffering right now for beliefs that they share with orthodox Catholics. Pick your side carefully.
Edwin
Edwin
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Dismas2004
Guest
Benedictine College is 100% Orthodox, This Rock said it is one of the top 5 up and coming Catholic College to attend. Most of the staff are Scott Hahn trained! Doesn’t get much better than that in my eyes. As far as SA being pro-abortion - have you read the links I posted. They sit on both sides of the fence under the appearance of being pastoral. Have you you ever gone to a United Way, March of Dimes, and Salvaiton Army fundraiser. They have them all the time because they work together. March of Dimes = Stem Cell Research = From Aborted Fetuses!
Seriously, you make some claims but have nothing to back it up except rhetoric. If you have some new info on the subject I would love to read it! As far as I can tell, SA supports abortion and has demonstrated their anti-catholic bias in their treatment programs. this is what I know for fact. If the Salvation Army is as good as you claim, and decent(not supporting abortion) then I would love to change my psoition and be their staunchest supporter. Lead me the way.
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Panis_Angelicas
Guest
The Salvation Army is a religion that supports “some abortion.”
If you give them money, you’re supporting that religion and it’s philosophies ~ both the good that they do, and the bad.
From Crisis Magazine:
**Well, it seems the Salvation Army may not be as traditional and values-oriented as they once were. Indeed, shortly after I sent out my last e-letter, a couple readers let me know that the Salvation Army – as a denomination – allowed abortion. This was a bit hard for me to believe, since I’ve long considered them a conservative Evangelical group.
But sadly, I can report that my friends were correct. Here’s the relevant quote from the Salvation Army’s website:
“Termination of a pregnancy may be justified in those rare instances where, in the judgment of competent medical and allied staff, the
pregnancy poses a serious threat to the life of the mother or could result in serious physical injury to the mother and in those
instances of proven rape or legally defined incest or where reliable diagnostic procedures determine that a fetal anomaly is present which is incompatible with post natal survival or where there is total or virtual absence of cognitive function.”
While this unfortunate fact doesn’t diminish the real and concrete good the Salvation Army does with their many charitable efforts, you
should nevertheless be fully informed about the groups to whom you
give money.**
****So, according the Salvation Army, if a child is conceived in rape or incest, or if he or she will have to live with handicaps, it’s ok to kill him or her.
There is a limit to their charity.
If you give them money, you’re supporting that religion and it’s philosophies ~ both the good that they do, and the bad.
From Crisis Magazine:
**Well, it seems the Salvation Army may not be as traditional and values-oriented as they once were. Indeed, shortly after I sent out my last e-letter, a couple readers let me know that the Salvation Army – as a denomination – allowed abortion. This was a bit hard for me to believe, since I’ve long considered them a conservative Evangelical group.
But sadly, I can report that my friends were correct. Here’s the relevant quote from the Salvation Army’s website:
“Termination of a pregnancy may be justified in those rare instances where, in the judgment of competent medical and allied staff, the
pregnancy poses a serious threat to the life of the mother or could result in serious physical injury to the mother and in those
instances of proven rape or legally defined incest or where reliable diagnostic procedures determine that a fetal anomaly is present which is incompatible with post natal survival or where there is total or virtual absence of cognitive function.”
While this unfortunate fact doesn’t diminish the real and concrete good the Salvation Army does with their many charitable efforts, you
should nevertheless be fully informed about the groups to whom you
give money.**
****So, according the Salvation Army, if a child is conceived in rape or incest, or if he or she will have to live with handicaps, it’s ok to kill him or her.
There is a limit to their charity.
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DominvsVobiscvm
Guest
The Church does sometimes allow remote mateiral cooperation with evil. Maybe that applies here?
Also, I would think that a Catholic addict in rehab would be dispensed from his Mass obligations, this being a rather extraordinary circumstance.
Also, I would think that a Catholic addict in rehab would be dispensed from his Mass obligations, this being a rather extraordinary circumstance.
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Dismas2004
Guest
:clapping: Good for You! We need more strong Catholics like this. Moral Courage Baby!!!
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Christian4life
Guest
It made me very sad to find out thier stance on abortion. I was never a member, but I used to work with them. I think it depends a lot on which church you go to. The one I went to, we never spoke about abortion at all, we were too busy teaching kids about Jesus, feeding the poor, and helping people pay thier bills.
M
Malachi4U
Guest
Gods peace be with you friend of God Katholikos,
You have taken your light out from under the basket and I saw the light. Today you made a difference im my life. I shall follow your example.
I SHALL NEVER AGAIN FEED THE KETTLE OF DEATH!
I supported the Salvation Army for 20+ years. Now I shall support life.
I wonder how many babies I murdered by giving to the Salvation Army?
Prohibiting Christians from mass and the clergy of Christ is a sin!
K
Katholikos
Guest
You don’t doubt that the SA is pro-abortion now, do you, after the undisputable evidence that has been presented here?
Since you’re Episcopalian, and the Episcopal Church vigorously defends the right of a mother to kill her unborn child in any circumstance – abortion on demand – do you share the belief that abortion is the appalling sin of murder of the innocent as the Catholic Church teaches?
Peace be with you,
JMJ Jay
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Patjoe
Guest
Most people and even journalists who promote the Salvation Army think of it strictly as a secular charitable organization like the Red Cross. One of our local television stations promotes the SA year-round. I wonder if they would do that for the Catholic Church!
The bell-ringers with their buckets began as a gimmick for the denomination (founded in England) to raise funds for the “corps” church-related activities. It worked! It seemed to U.S. storeowners like a good idea – bells at Christmas, a natural. Now it just seems like another Christmas tradition for shoppers to throw our spare change into the kettles. In fact, we feel a certain amount of guilt if we do not. Stores lend their own personnel to man the buckets – I wonder if those people know they are supporting the tenets of a religious denomination that in some instances are contrary to those of their own church.
When Target banned the Salvation Army from collecting money in front of their stores, the SA practically black-mailed Target into otherwise supporting the Army activities. I heard the head of the U.S. SA say that they will lose $96 million this year from being banned at Target.
I think of the good that our Catholic Charities could do in the same areas as the SA does with the millions of dollars Catholics put into the buckets! Or the missionaries at home and abroad. Or parishes that are having to close because of lack of income. Virtually every other denomination has its own charitable activities that go begging a little more because of the “spare change” that people ignorantly and as a matter of habit drop into the kettles.
The Salvation Army is one of the wealthiest denominations in the world. It has become that on the backs of other denominations. I say – the Salvation Army should raise funds to support its activities the way every other denomination does: through its own members! And no one should be made to feel guilty by not dropping something into the buckets.
Perhaps the Catholic Church could have its own buckets – one year I inquired of several local stores who told me that that would be perfectly alright with them. I picture the Little Sisters of the Poor with a basket or food barrel – who could deny them a couple of quarters?!? Or seminarians. Or (you fill in the blank). Surely, if the Salvation Army can raise close to $100 million at Target, should we not get a couple of bucks from Catholics who pass by?
The bell-ringers with their buckets began as a gimmick for the denomination (founded in England) to raise funds for the “corps” church-related activities. It worked! It seemed to U.S. storeowners like a good idea – bells at Christmas, a natural. Now it just seems like another Christmas tradition for shoppers to throw our spare change into the kettles. In fact, we feel a certain amount of guilt if we do not. Stores lend their own personnel to man the buckets – I wonder if those people know they are supporting the tenets of a religious denomination that in some instances are contrary to those of their own church.
When Target banned the Salvation Army from collecting money in front of their stores, the SA practically black-mailed Target into otherwise supporting the Army activities. I heard the head of the U.S. SA say that they will lose $96 million this year from being banned at Target.
I think of the good that our Catholic Charities could do in the same areas as the SA does with the millions of dollars Catholics put into the buckets! Or the missionaries at home and abroad. Or parishes that are having to close because of lack of income. Virtually every other denomination has its own charitable activities that go begging a little more because of the “spare change” that people ignorantly and as a matter of habit drop into the kettles.
The Salvation Army is one of the wealthiest denominations in the world. It has become that on the backs of other denominations. I say – the Salvation Army should raise funds to support its activities the way every other denomination does: through its own members! And no one should be made to feel guilty by not dropping something into the buckets.
Perhaps the Catholic Church could have its own buckets – one year I inquired of several local stores who told me that that would be perfectly alright with them. I picture the Little Sisters of the Poor with a basket or food barrel – who could deny them a couple of quarters?!? Or seminarians. Or (you fill in the blank). Surely, if the Salvation Army can raise close to $100 million at Target, should we not get a couple of bucks from Catholics who pass by?
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