Salvation for Non-Christians?

[Greg00]

I am a devout Catholic but am having a hard time understanding the Church’s position on salvation for non-Christians. Apparently it says that they have the chance of slavation if it is “through no fault of their own,” if I’m correct. Now, let’s define “through no fault of their own.” Wouldn’t that mean if they’ve never heard of Christianity? Like if they’re living in some third-world country and have never been taught about it or anything? That I can understand. But lets say that someone od born into a Jewish or Muslim family and is raised as a devout Jew or Mulsim. Am I to understand that they go to heaven? I was always under the impression that if you’re not a Christian, you go to hell. Isn’t that right? Isn’t that what Jesus said? “No one comes tot he Father but through Me,” “I am the way, the light, and the truth,” “Whoseoevr believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” Everything in the Bible seems to point to you going to hell if you’re not Christian, and that is why we must go out and evagleise. But I was very surprised when I heard about this doctrine. Did I hear wrong or something? Somebody please clear this up for me. Thank you and God bless.

 

[marineboy]

THE DO GO TO HELL IF THEY ARE NOT A CATHOLIC AND ARE JUDGED IN THAT STATE–“through no fault of their own”–it could ean that someone who nver heard the gospel–or if someone heard of it they may not --NOTICE I SAID MAY NOT–BE CULPIBLE BECAUSE THEY DIDNT FIND THE ARGUMENTS FO CHRIST COMPELLING—that is up for God to decide–t the rule should be-and we should go about are evangelizing–with the attiude that al those whoa re not foraml members of the Church run the risk of eternal damntion----including Protestants----

 

[puzzleannie]

please before you ask a question like this do some basic research, starting with CA tracts on the homepage, look under salvation. then when you come here for further questions, disregard screamers. there is nobody on this forum delegated by the pope to condemn people to hell, no matter what they claim.

 

[RSiscoe]

The Church has taught since day one that only Catholics can be saved. It has even defined it as a dogma of the faith. There are hundreds of quotes from Popes and saints that confirm this consistent teaching of the Church.

However, since the 1960’s we have been given confusing and ambiguous statements on this topic which have led to a lot of confusion. Thus, many Catholics now believe that it really does not matter if you are a Catholic or not, “as long as you are a good person”. That is, of course, totally false. Objectively speaking, every single non Catholic will be lost.

Subjectively, the Church does allow for the possibility that a person who has never heard the truth can somehow be enlightened internally and thus be saved. We know of no instances of this ever happening, but nevertheless, the church allows for such a possibility. Based on this “possibility”, many have been led to believe that anyone can be saved and being a Catholic is really not necessary.

Your understanding, as expressed in your post, is exactly what the Church has always taught.

The following are a few quotes on the subject:

Saint Irenaeus (died A.D. 202): “[The Church] is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them… We hear it declared of the unbelieving and the blinded of this world that they shall not inherit the world of life which is to come… Resist them in defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her sons.” (Against Heresies, Book III)

Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” (In Iesu Nave homiliae)

Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258): “He who has turned his back on the Church of Christ shall not come to the rewards of Christ; he is an alien, a worldling, an enemy. You cannot have God for your Father if you have not the Church for your mother. Our Lord warns us when He says: `he that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.’ Whosoever breaks the peace and harmony of Christ acts against Christ; whoever gathers elsewhere than in the Church scatters the Church of Christ.” (Unity of the Catholic Church)

“He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.” (Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Latina, Father Migne)

“Nay, though they should suffer death for the confession of the Name, the guilt of such men is not removed even by their blood…No martyr can he be who is not in the Church.” (Ancient Christian Writers)

Bishop Firmilean (died A.D. 269): “What is the greatness of his error, and what the depth of his blindness, who says that remission of sins can be granted in the synagogues of heretics, and does not abide on the foundation of the one Church.” (Anti-Nicene Fathers)

Lactantius (died A.D. 310): “It is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this is the abode of the Faith, this is the temple of God; into which if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go out, he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal salvation.” (The Divine Institutes)

Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (died A.D. 386): “Abhor all heretics…heed not their fair speaking or their mock humility; for they are serpents, a brood of vipers.' Remember that, when Judas said Hail Rabbi,’ the salutation was an act of betrayal. Do not be deceived by the kiss but beware of the venom. Abhor such men, therefore, and shun the blasphemers of the Holy Spirit, for whom there is no pardon. For what fellowship have you with men without hope. Let us confidently say to God regarding all heretics, Did I not hate, O Lord, those who hated Thee, and did I not pine away because of Your enemies?' For there is an enmity that is laudable, as it is written, I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.’ Friendship with the serpent produces enmity with God, and death. Let us shun those from whom God turns away.” (The Fathers of the Church)

 

[RSiscoe]

Saint Ambrose (died A.D. 397): “Where Peter is therefore, there is the Church. Where the Church is there is not death but life eternal. …Although many call themselves Christians, they usurp the name and do not have the reward.” (The Fathers of the Church)

Bishop Niceta of Remesiana (died A.D. 415): “He is the Way along which we journey to our salvation; the Truth, because He rejects what is false; the Life, because He destroys death. …All who from the beginning of the world were, or are, or will be justified - whether Patriarchs, like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or Prophets, whether Apostles or martyrs, or any others - make up one Church, because they are made holy by one faith and way of life, stamped with one Spirit, made into one Body whose Head, as we are told, is Christ. I go further. The angels and virtues and powers in heaven are co-members in this one Church, for, as the Apostle teaches us, in Christ all things whether on the earth or in the heavens have been reconciled.' You must believe, therefore, that in this one Church you are gathered into the Communion of Saints. You must know that this is the one Catholic Church established throughout the world, and with it you must remain in unshaken communion. There are, indeed, other so called churches’ with which you can have no communion. …These `churches’ cease to be holy, because they were deceived by the doctrines of the devil to believe and behave differently from what Christ commanded and from the tradition of the Apostles.” (The Fathers of the Church)

Saint Jerome (died A.D. 420): “As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is, with the Chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. …This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. …And as for heretics, I have never spared them; on the contrary, I have seen to it in every possible way that the Church’s enemies are also my enemies.” (Manual of Patrology and History of Theology)

Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430): “No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)

Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533): “Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Enchiridion Patristicum)

St. Bede the Venerable (died A.D. 735): “Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside.” (Hexaemeron)

Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274): “There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church.” (Summa Theologiae)

Saint Peter Canisius (died A.D. 1597): “Outside of this communion - as outside of the ark of Noah - there is absolutely **no **salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members…for the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother.” (Catechismi Latini et Germanici)

Saint Robert Bellarmine (died A.D. 1621): “Outside the Church there is **no **salvation…therefore in the symbol [Apostles Creed] we join together the Church with the remission of sins: `I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins’…For this reason the Church is compared with the ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church.” (De Sacramento Baptismi)

 

[RSiscoe]

The following are infallible dogmas of the faith. A dogma of the faith is a truth that has been revealed by God through the Church. Thus, the following are the words of God that we must believe.

• There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved. (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
• We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (, 1302.Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam)
• The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull* Cantate Domino*, 1441.)

Don’t be fooled by those who teach otherwise. The quotes I provided represent what the Church has always taught. What you hear today is often a result of confusion, which is a result of ambiguous documents, which are a tool of liberalism, which has invaded the Church.

 

[rwoehmke]

So are you saying the CCC approved by John Paul II teaches error? Quoting the church Fathers and past Popes out of context isn’t any more valid than the scriptural quotes by our protestant brothers who quote out of context. Father Feeney of Boston was excommunicated for this heresy you are teaching back in 1949. Long before the present Pope or Vatican II. I suppose though it is important for some personal reason for you to believe as you do. I do not believe that all churches and religions are equivalent and neither does the Holy Father. Yeah, I know, its a conspiracy to undermine the Truth.There are schismatic and heritical groups who understand these things as stated in the previous posts in this thread.

 

[RSiscoe]

rwoehmke:

So are you saying the CCC approved by John Paul II teaches error?

I did not say it teaches error, but I do believe that many “interpret” the new catechism in a way that is erroneous.

Quoting the church Fathers and past Popes out of context isn’t any more valid than the scriptural quotes by our protestant brothers who quote out of context.

The quotes I provided are not our of context. They reflect exactly what the Church has always taught. If you think I took the quote our of context, please look them up for yourself. And there are many additional quotes I could have uses.

Father Feeney of Boston was excommunicated for this heresy you are teaching back in 1949. Long before the present Pope or Vatican II.

Fr. Feeney was not excommunicated for teaching what I wrote above, and what all of the Saints and Pope who I quoted taught.

I suppose though it is important for some personal reason for you to believe as you do.

The reason it is important for me to believe the way I do is because that is what the Church has always taught and has defined as dogma. If I cease to believe what the Church has always taught, and what it has defined as a dogma of the faith, I will cease to be Catholic.

Here are a few more quotes from the Popes that show what the Church has always taught:

Pope Pelagius II (A.D. 578 - 590): “Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. …Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. …Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. …[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church.” (Denzinger 246-247)

Pope Saint Gregory the Great (A.D. 590 - 604): “Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.” (Moralia)

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 - 1216): “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423)

Pope Leo XII (A.D. 1823 - 1829): “We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. …For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.’” (Encyclical, Ubi Primum)

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 - 1846): "It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved." (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 - 1878): “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

 

[RSiscoe]

Pope Leo XIII (A.D. 1878 - 1903): “This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church.” (Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus)

“He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God.” (Encyclical, Sapientiae Christianae)

Pope Saint Pius X (A.D. 1903 - 1914): “It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation.” (Encyclical, Jucunda Sane)

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 - 1922): “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

Pope Pius XI (A.D. 1922 - 1939): “The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. …Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.” (Encyclical, Mortalium Animos)

Pope Pius XII (A.D. 1939 - 1958): “By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth.” (Allocution to the Gregorian, October 17, 1953)

Pope Pius XII (Humani Generis: “Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the Sources of Revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a **meaningless **formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation.”

Today many have gone beyond just reducing it to a “meaningless formula” and have rejected it out-right. That has been the result of the liberalism and modernism which have envaded the Church like a cancer.

 

[marineboy]

read my post—is the teaching of he church----no one condems anyone to hell except God and that person

 

[masterjedi747]

Greg00:

I am a devout Catholic but am having a hard time understanding the Church’s position on salvation for non-Christians.

One of my local parish priests explained this well. I’ll do my best to explain it like He did.
There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.
Jesus Christ = God = Existence = Reality = Truth
“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life…no one comes to the Father except through me.”

The only way to reach Heaven is through Jesus Christ. The only way to reach Heaven is through the Catholic Church which He established for us on Earth.

The only way to become a member of Christ’s Church is through Baptism. Baptism by Water (Sacrament), Baptism by Blood/Fire (Martyrdom), Baptism by Desire (Honestly Seeking Truth).

Everyone who gets to Heaven does so through the Catholic Church.
Everyone who gets to Heaven does so through the Truth which the Catholic Church teaches.

To know Truth, in any form, is to know Jesus Christ. Anyone who is honestly seeking to obtain Truth can ultimately do so only through Jesus Christ, and the Church which He established.

Catholics can get to Heaven. Protestants can get to Heaven. Pagans can get to Heaven. Buddhists can get to Heaven. Atheists can get to Heaven. People who lived before Christ can get to Heaven. Everyone who ever lived in this universe can get to Heaven.

But the only way any single one of them can do so is through honestly seeking Truth. Seeking Christ. Through His Catholic Church, which teaches Truth.

Other religions can lead individuals to the Salvation which is offered through the Catholic Church. Being a devout member the Catholic Church in this life is simply the simplest, safest, and most direct route to obtaining Truth. And we should always be seeking to lead others to the Truth which the Catholic Church offers, so that they can obtain Salvation easier.

One way or another, no matter how difficult it is, everyone who ever lived can obtain Salvation. But ultimately, it can only come though one place: The Catholic Church that Jesus Christ Himself established. In Heaven, we will all be members of Christ’s Universal (Catholic) Church.
So did that make sense, hopefully?

 

[rwoehmke]

RCiscoe, evidently this is a very important issue for you. I remain unconvinced. Invincible ignorance I guess. I am afraid what you and I think and believe is not going to shift the world on its axis even one itybit. Be at peace.

 

[Greg00]

Thank you masterjedi. That explained it for me. And it also explained the quotes that RSiscoe posted. All of those quotes were very helpful as well, thank you RSiscoe. Thank you all. I understand now.

 

[twf]

Dave Armstrong has a very comprehensive analysis of this concept. He looks at quotes from the Fathers and Councils that reflect both Truths a) There is no salvation outside the Church b) Some outside the visible Church may be saved.

ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ419.HTM

 

[amarischuk]

RSiscoe:

Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” (In Iesu Nave homiliae)

Wherever RSiscoe copy and pasted this list from (try googling: insane ultra-traditionalist Catholic babble) it is wrong. Origen was a well know universalist: he believed in universal salvation as all things proceeded, so they shall return. Either the quote is wrong, or RSiscoe will not agree with Origen’s defintion of what makes someone belong to the Church (as everyone belongs to the Church by virtue of existence). But I have yet to find any conclusive evidence that Origen ever wrote anything entitled: In Iesu Nave homiliae

“We think that the goodness of God, through the mediation of Christ, will bring all creatures to one and the same end” (De princip., I, vi, 1-3).

newadvent.org/cathen/11306b.htm

Adam

 

[alfredo]

amarischuk:

insane ultra-traditionalist Catholic babble)

I don;t understand how the official declarations of a Catholic Pope can be insane babble? How did declarations which were accepted as Catholic truth suddenly become insane babble after Vatican II?

 

[alfredo]

* The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull* Cantate Domino*, 1441.)

This declaration seems to rule out Baptism of Blood. I thought that Baptism of Blood was a teaching that was found in the older Baltimore catechisms. Has the teaching of the Catholic Church changed on the question of Baptism of Blood?

 

[amarischuk]

alfredo:

I don;t understand how the official declarations of a Catholic Pope can be insane babble? How did declarations which were accepted as Catholic truth suddenly become insane babble after Vatican II?

I gave conclusive evidence that one quote was taken out of context at best, a fabrication at worst. I have no reason to trust such a list or hold in any esteem the opinions advanced within.

The fact that a quick google search only led to traditionalist sites is indication enough that this is something that should be addressed by the Catholic equivolent of www.snopes.com

Adam

 

[alfredo]

amarischuk:

I have no reason to trust such a list or hold in any esteem the opinions advanced within.

Does this mean then that Catholics should not hold in esteem some of the official declarations of a Catholic Pope, but that Catholics are supposed to believe that some of these oficial papal declarations are insane babble? Would that apply only to papal declarations before Vatican II, or would it apply also to some of the papal declarations after Vatican II?
I thought that as Catholics we were supposed to hold in esteem all papal declarations, including those before Vatican II? Or has the teaching changed on this point?

 

[reen12]

Or, of course, one could simply ignore who said

what about eternal salvation and ask the question:
What do I think a loving and just God would do?

While I might find it enlightening and bring respectful attention to what a Father of the Church said, in the end, it is those
statements that are consonant with my human experience
that are most compelling.

reen12

I pray to the God of Israel, and hope that Jesus was
the Messiah.