Salvation: What does faith and works mean

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fhansen said:
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott

The human will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not irresistible. ( De Fide )
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In The Mystery of Predestination by John Salza explains;

Page 77; “Sufficient grace remains an interior impulse, whereas an efficacious grace produces an exterior act.

With efficacious grace, man is able to resist the grace but does not, because the grace causes him to freely choose the good.

This means that when God wills a person to perform a salutary act (e.g. prayer, good works), He grants him the means (an efficacious grace ) that infallibly produces the end ( the act willed by God ).

If God wills to permit a person to resist His grace, He grants him a sufficient, and not an efficacious, grace.”
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God bless
 
I realize that’s the Catholic belief, and I am offering a belief based on Jewish teaching. Not really looking to debate or persuade but rather to discuss and clarify the justification of beliefs.
 
This seems to be one form of Protestant belief regarding faith and works. Not all Protestants agree, and I think it is not held by the Church.
 
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You’re fine, meltzer. I’m always happy to discuss with a Jew. You guys are our older brothers in the Faith, after all. So, since you understand our point, what does Jewish tradition and your rabbis say on the matter?
 
meltzerboy2 said:
This seems to be one form of Protestant belief regarding faith and works. Not all Protestants agree, and I think it is not held by the Church.
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St. Thomas (C. G., II, xxviii) if God’s purpose were made dependent on the foreseen free act of any creature, God would thereby sacrifice His own freedom, and would submit Himself to His creatures, thus abdicating His essential supremacy–a thing which is, of course, utterly inconceivable.

God bless
 
Judaism puts a lot of emphasis on good works, not that faith is unimportant. Both are important but faith IN ACTION is essential. The religion is more orthoprax than orthodox.
 
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Interesting. Orthography; not orthodox. Could you please elaborate?
 
There is a hierarchy of doing good works, from sincere works done anonymously (the highest form) to insincere works done grudgingly (the lowest form). But even the latter is regarded as better than doing nothing.

Faith in action in Judaism is not so different from the process in Catholicism. Jesus said it best when He stated “What you do for the least of these, you do for Me.” We are obligated to help those in need however we can. This is one of the most important tenets of Judaism.
 
Cool. Going over the Torah in our Old Testament; I do see a lot of care for the poor written into the heart of Jewish law.
 
To interject with some speculation here although not new, all righteousness comes from God, meaning that all righteousness comes from grace. And we believe that Jesus Christ, being God, is the means to that grace. So that it might be said that a person can act under the influence of grace without being conscious of its Source.
 
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307 To human beings God even gives the power of freely sharing in his providence by entrusting them with the responsibility of “subduing” the earth and having dominion over it. God thus enables men to be intelligent and free causes in order to complete the work of creation, to perfect its harmony for their own good and that of their neighbors. Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan by their actions, their prayers and their sufferings. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.

God bless
 
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Right, he enabled man to be a free cause by giving him dominion, in this case. Latin, the whole drama of human life from Eden, through the advent of our Redeemer, until now, makes little to no sense if the human will is not truly, freely, involved. Because otherwise, if God is not seeking to patiently draw man’s will into His light, then human history, with all of the centuries of pain and victimization and suffering and death has no purpose, if God’s intent was simply to stock heaven with the elect and hell with the reprobate anyway, or save everyone for that matter.
 
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The way I see it from Catholic Soteriology, God has a threefold Design/ Plan for the human race.
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FIRST PART OF HIS DESIGN:
GOD CREATED IN THIS WORLD THE DRAMAS OF EVIL AND SIN FOR THE REASON TO CONVERT OUR SINS INTO GREATER GOOD AND THROUGH OUR SUFFERINGS TO MAKE US NOBLE AND JOYFUL SAINTS.

CCC 310 With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, CCC 314 through the dramas of evil and sin .
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“Life without suffering would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.”
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains.

“His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.”
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will
“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.”

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SECOND PART OF HIS DESIGN:
GOD MADE THE HUMAN RACE HIS FELLOW WORKERS AND CO-WORKERS AND HE IN ORDER CAUSES THE HUMAN RACE TO COMPLETE THE CREATION.

308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.

307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, … “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.

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THIRD PART OF HIS DESIGN:
UNIMAGINABLE EVERLASTING HAPPINESS IN HEAVEN FOR THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.

314 Through the dramas of evil and sin - God has guided his creation to that definitive sabbath rest for which he created heaven and earth.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains.

This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).

It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).

It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom. xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).

That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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God bless
 
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