Salvation

[FuzzyBunny116]

Well first off, let me say that this argument might not be fully complete. I accidently hit the back button right near the end of this treaste and it erased my whole post .

I’ve read a few books and talked to a few people about who will be saved. It is my personal belief that as long as one leads a relativly good life, no matter their religion, they will merit Heaven. I seem to be being told that only those, for the most part, who are Catholic or Christian (I’ve heard it both ways) and are good people will be saved.

This doesn’t seem right to me for a number of reasons.

If a man is born into, say, a Muslim household, logically, MOST of the time, he will grow up Muslim. If a man is born into a Catholic household, logically, MOST of the time, he will grow up Muslim. Both of these religions seem to me to say that they are the only ones that will bring salvation. If Catholism (sp) brings salvation, is it the Muslim’s fault that he was brought up Muslim? Afterall, it seems hard to convince him that Catholism is the ‘right’ religion. If Islam brings salvation, is it the Catholic’s fault that he was born into Catholism? Both pull you towards them, saying they are the only way it seems, so how is one supposed to choose?

As well, it is said “nothing unclean shall enter heaven,” so wouldn’t one argue that nothing clean shall enter heaven? I know everyone sins, but those who sin little, and do many good works, even if they aren’t Catholic, don’t seem to deserve Hell to me. It’s silly as well it seems to say that those before Jesus will be doomed since they weren’t Catholics. “Well, they didn’t have a chance to be Catholics,” one might say. So wouldn’t they have an advantage over us? They never had anyone to say “This religion is the only way.” If a secluded tribe in some foreign jungle somewhere has never heard of Jesus, will he be saved if he was a good person? If yes, then wouldn’t it be a disadvantage to those who HAVE heard of Jesus, as now they HAVE to believe them in order to be saved? If no, is it their fault that they were born into a land that had never heard of him?

I really wish I could remember the rest of my argument, but I’m going to close this up until I can remember the rest.

All my life I’ve heard “Its’ the thought that counts,” “All that matters is you tried your best,” etc. If people tried their best, but were lead astray by religions that THOUGHT they were doing the right thing (I’ve heard of Catholism around the time of the Reformatoin, and I would have probably joined them with how messed up the Church was) and trying to lead people the right way, do they deserve Hell?

If anyone could answer me with their (name removed by moderator)ut, I would grately appreciate it. I’m starting to see all these little things that seem to want to hint “the end is nigh” and all, and I worry much for my non-Catholic/Christian friends.

Help!

 

[Genesis315]

Only God can judge whether they were at fault for not being Catholic. It’s a concept called “invincible ignorance.” God gives us graces that push us towards the Truth. Did someone reject those graces? Did one hear of Catholicism and the Holy Spirit moved them to believe it, but they rejected it because they were comfortable in the status quo? This would not be invincible ignorance. Only God can judge someone’s heart and determine whether or not they were invincibly ignorant that Catholicism is true. Likewise, God’s law is written on all our hearts. Do non-Catholics follow it? Again, only God can judge.

They never had anyone to say “This religion is the only way.” If a secluded tribe in some foreign jungle somewhere has never heard of Jesus, will he be saved if he was a good person? If yes, then wouldn’t it be a disadvantage to those who HAVE heard of Jesus, as now they HAVE to believe them in order to be saved? If no, is it their fault that they were born into a land that had never heard of him?

Not really. It’s easier to doubt and suppress the Holy Spirit’s urging when it is leading you away from something that is familiar.

As well, it is said “nothing unclean shall enter heaven,” so wouldn’t one argue that nothing clean shall enter heaven?

That’s why purgatory exists. To clean us up.

I hope this helps.

 

[FuzzyBunny116]

Yeah, it does I think some-I agree that we all have what is right written in us, and again that’s all I truley believe matters. I certainly wish to see what others had to say. And I ment to say, nothing unclean shall enter Heaven, so shouldn’t nothing clean enter Hell?

 

[BlindSheep]

From the Catechism:
[1260](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1260.htm’) "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery."63 Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.

 

[Genesis315]

FuzzyBunny116:

Yeah, it does I think some. I certainly wish to see what others had to say. And I ment to say, nothing unclean shall enter Heaven, so shouldn’t nothing clean enter Hell?

Check these articles out:
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9111chap.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907chap.asp

They might provide more help on the Catholic view.

 

[mikeabele]

The best way to deal with this question is to state certain truths that the Scripture make very plain. The Bible is very clear that no one can come to God except through Jesus Christ.

Jesus said, “No one comes to the Father except through Me” (John 14:6, MLB). The only basis for forgiveness of sin and life everlasting is the way made by Jesus. Many people think this implies that those who have never heard about Jesus will be automatically damned. However, we do not know this is the case.

Although the Scriptures never explicitly teach that someone who has never heard of Jesus can be saved, we do believe that it infers this. We do believe that every person will have an opportunity to repent, and that God will not exclude anyone because he happened to be born at the wrong place and at the wrong time.

Jesus said, “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself” (John 7:17, KJV).

The Bible also reveals that no one has any excuse. “For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse” (Romans 1:19–20, RSV).

It is a fact that all of mankind can tell that a creator does exist, because His creation testifies to it. This testimony is universal. Although the people have enough information that God does exist, they become wilfully ignorant of the things of God because their hearts are evil.

The Bible teaches that the unbelieving individual is “holding down the truth in unrighteousness” (Romans 1:18, Lit. Trans). Moreover, the Scriptures relate that man is not seeking after God but actually running from Him. “There is none that seeketh after God” (Romans 3:11, KJV). Therefore, it is not a case of God refusing to get His Word to someone who is desperately searching for the truth.

We also know that it is God’s desire that none “should perish but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9, KJV). This indicates that God also cares for those persons who have not heard the gospel. He has demonstrated this by sending His Son to die in their place. “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8, KJV).

The Bible teaches that God is going to judge the world fairly and righteously. “Because he hath appointed a day, in which he will judge the world in righteousness” (Acts 17:31, KJV). This means that when all the facts are in, God’s name will be vindicated and no one will be able to accuse Him of unfairness.

Even though we may not know how He is going to deal with these people specifically, we know that His judgment is going to be fair. Just this fact alone should satisfy anyone who wonders how God is going to deal with people who have never heard of Jesus Christ.

The Bible itself testifies to the fact that there are those who will hear and respond out of every people on the earth. “For you were killed, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation” (Revelation 5:9).

Cont…

 

[mikeabele]

The Bible gives an example of a man who was in a situation not unlike many today. His name was Cornelius. He was a very religious man who was constantly praying to God. He had not heard of Jesus Christ, but he was honestly asking God to reveal Himself to him.

God answered the prayer of Cornelius, and sent the apostle Peter to him to give him the full story of Jesus. When Peter preached to him, Cornelius put his trust in Christ as his Savior. This example demonstrates that anyone who is sincerely desiring to know God will hear about Jesus.

There are people today, like Cornelius, who are praying the same prayer to know the true and living God, and they are being reached no matter where they might live. Simon Peter stated, “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him” (Acts 10:34–35, KJV).

The Scriptures contain other examples of individuals who were accepted by God, even though their knowledge of Him was limited. Rahab, the prostitute, had only the smallest amount of knowledge of God, but the Bible refers to her as a woman of faith, and her actions were commended (Joshua 2:9; Hebrews 11:31).

Naaman, the Syrian, was granted peace with God because he exercised faith, even though he was living in the midst of a pagan culture (II Kings 5:15–19). Jonah, the prophet, was sent to Nineveh, a heathen society, and they repented at his preaching (Jonah 3:5).

No one will be condemned for not ever hearing of Jesus Christ. That person will be condemned for violating his own moral standard. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

“For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel” (Romans 2:12–16, KJV).

Based on the above examples from Scripture, it can be seen that God will fairly judge all mankind and that no one can claim that he or she received an unfair hearing. Therefore, the people who ask this question should be very careful not to use this as an excuse for not coming to Christ.

What you think might happen or might not happen to someone else does not relieve your responsibility on Judgment Day. Although we might not be able to answer the question about those who haven’t heard to the satisfaction of everyone, there are certain things that the Bible has made clear.

 

[Kostja]

Faith alone. What Bible says?

(Rom. 4: 1-3)

1 “What then shall we say about Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to one who works, his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due. 5 And to one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness”.

I think, that´s all we need. Faith alone to the Christ and so salvation is airtight.

Kostja