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r.gonzales
Guest
perhaps reading his statement again would show you that he isn’t saying that that was the reason for the crusades…
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exoflare
Guest
Then what does it have to do with the topic?
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Ortho
Guest
Well, I guess there are just millions of Muslims who have the character and courgage take a risk for their belief. It’s a personal choice.
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r.gonzales
Guest
like i said… re-read what he said.
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MugenOne
Guest
How perilous could the pilgrimage journey to the holy land be? Unless the pilgrims got attacked or raided by the Muslims, right?
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Ortho
Guest
The ships used in those days were not nearly as reliable as today. Many were lost in passage.
Disease was far less controlled, and medical attention unavailable.
People who were injured and could not continue had little recourse. They either stayed where they were and recovered, or struggled to get back home. many didn’t make it.
Christian bandits also attacked the pilgrims who didn’t take the ship.
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Cyber_Knight
Guest
sorry to say… that is the most lousy arrangement of pilgrimage ever made by the muslims and they do it over and over again (almost every year recently). do they realize about it or ignorantly just thinking die in mecca would go to heaven? 
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Ortho
Guest
Cyber Knight:
Muslims believe one who dies on the Haj would go to heaven.
Are you acquainted with the arrangements?sorry to say… that is the most lousy arrangement of pilgrimage ever made by the muslims and they do it over and over again (almost every year recently). do they realize about it or ignorantly just thinking die in mecca would go to heaven?
Muslims believe one who dies on the Haj would go to heaven.
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AJV
Guest
Cyber Knight:
helloooooo! There are like 2 million people there! All of whom have to perform a certain ritual.sorry to say… that is the most lousy arrangement of pilgrimage ever made by the muslims and they do it over and over again (almost every year recently). do they realize about it or ignorantly just thinking die in mecca would go to heaven?
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exoflare
Guest
Then I guess the Saudi government is doing these guys a favor from their perspective. Why should they change the safety arrangements in this case? All those who died are apparently in a better place now, according to their own beliefs.
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Ortho
Guest
The Saudi government is doing all the hajis a favor by enabling huge numbers to make the Haj.
Likewise, the US government is doing us a favor by building interstate highways.
However, people have died on both the pedestrian highways in Mecca and the automobile highways in the US.
The reason any agency changes safety arrangements is becasue they see an opportunity to improve. That’s why the Saudis improve facilities in Mecca, and that’s why the US improves interstate highways.
I can’t speak for those who die on either US highways or Saudi pedestrian highways. I don’t know what they think. Do you?
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exoflare
Guest
No, you’re right. Some of those people trampled to death during the Hajj may not have even been Muslim. In that case, I really wish they had been forewarned of what would inevitably happen!
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MugenOne
Guest
I don’t know about y’all, but I would go to Mecca and die if Allah can promise me the followings in writing:
M1
- 72 platinum blonde virgins.
I don’t want no special transparent beings. - River flows Roederer Cristal champagne.
I don’t want regulate wine. - A Star War-type starship with warp speed so I can take my 72 blonde virgins around the universe or multiverse.
- A big villa with heap of Filipini maids.
- Bacon. Yes, nothing replaces the sweet smell of bacon.
- My wife could have 72 muscle bound studs.
I can have fun while she can’t. You know what I’m saying.
M1
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AJV
Guest
Unlikely, since non-Muslims are not allowed in Makka.
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Ortho
Guest
It is very doubtful non-Muslims would be making the Haj.
These things are not inevitable. They do not occur every year.
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exoflare
Guest
Okay. For some reason, I was getting the impression that this had become a routine thing in recent years.
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Ortho
Guest
There have been three major sources of disaster at the Haj in the last 50 years.
Afer the Iranian revolution a group tried to capture the Garnd Mosque in Mecca. This resulted in a pitched battle in which a few hundred were killed. The actual figure is in dispute since the Saudi government tends to whitewash things.
Fires in the tents were a major problem in the eighties. Saudi civil engineering firms took over themanagementof the tent cities and this has not ben a problem for a while.
Since the Haj is a prescribed set of visits to specific areas, its route cannot be altered. Since the number of Muslims continues to grow, and their financial and technical ability to make the Haj increases, there are more and more Hajis every year. The moving crowds pose a danger of stampede. That’s what happened this year.
In response to the stampede danger, the Saudis have built pedestrian highways that look very much like our interstate exchanges. The construction continues both above and below ground.
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