Saved by what one does?

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Kerry_in_WA

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My son attends a Protestant Christian school, and in his religion class we are running into some misunderstandings. I don’t really want to get into long theological discussions with his teacher, but he emailed me today when I sent him a note challenging the list in my son’s text that lumped Catholicism in the same category of other religions as Buddhism and Islam. Anyway, in his response he mentioned the “traditional” Catholic teaching that one is saved by what he does. I asked him if he meant salvation by works as in following the law, doing good works, or participating in the sacraments. I’m a recent convert, so I don’t know how to take this. Any thoughts to help me?
 
Kerry in WA:
My son attends a Protestant Christian school, and in his religion class we are running into some misunderstandings. I don’t really want to get into long theological discussions with his teacher, but he emailed me today when I sent him a note challenging the list in my son’s text that lumped Catholicism in the same category of other religions as Buddhism and Islam. Anyway, in his response he mentioned the “traditional” Catholic teaching that one is saved by what he does. I asked him if he meant salvation by works as in following the law, doing good works, or participating in the sacraments. I’m a recent convert, so I don’t know how to take this. Any thoughts to help me?
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We are saved by both faith and works. I don’t know why he put Catholocism in with Buddhism and Islam. I can give you an arguement for faith and works if you want.
 
Well considering all protestants can trace thier lineage from the relgion they classify as other they are also other a subset of a relgion they think is a cult. Where did they get the Bible anyway? Oh yeah the Bookstore. I mean before that yeah OTHER.

Look in any logical dictionary or Encyclopedia look up the word Christian; Catholics are included as are Orthodox as are Protestants.
THese are the 3 branches of Christiantiy of which one existed alone for the first one thousand years of the Christian faith.
 
Kerry in WA:
My son attends a Protestant Christian school, and in his religion class we are running into some misunderstandings. I don’t really want to get into long theological discussions with his teacher, but he emailed me today when I sent him a note challenging the list in my son’s text that lumped Catholicism in the same category of other religions as Buddhism and Islam. Anyway, in his response he mentioned the “traditional” Catholic teaching that one is saved by what he does. I asked him if he meant salvation by works as in following the law, doing good works, or participating in the sacraments. I’m a recent convert, so I don’t know how to take this. Any thoughts to help me?
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This person obviously misunderstands Catholic teaching, which is common, even among Catholics ;). I will attempt to summarize:

We are not saved by our own works; we are saved **by God’s grace alone offered to us through Christ’s death and resurrection. But we must work to accept the free gift of God’s grace that saves us. That grace is accepted through faith working in love. Thus, all these things are necessary: grace, faith, and works of love. It is only with this understanding that Paul can write that if one has faith but no love, it profits him nothing (1 Cor 13:2), and that faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17).

Check out the tracts on www.catholicanswers.org on “Salvation” for more information on the Catholic Church’s understanding of Justification and Salvation. The tracts are a very good synopsis. I’ve even sent the links to protestant pastors who misunderstand the Church’s teaching!

Peace,
javelin
 
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javelin:
This person obviously misunderstands Catholic teaching, which is common, even among Catholics ;). I will attempt to summarize:

We are not saved by our own works; we are saved **by God’s grace alone offered to us through Christ’s death and resurrection. But we must work to accept the free gift of God’s grace that saves us. That grace is accepted through faith working in love. Thus, all these things are necessary: grace, faith, and works of love. It is only with this understanding that Paul can write that if one has faith but no love, it profits him nothing (1 Cor 13:2), and that faith without works is dead (James 2:14-17).

Check out the tracts on www.catholicanswers.org on “Salvation” for more information on the Catholic Church’s understanding of Justification and Salvation. The tracts are a very good synopsis. I’ve even sent the links to protestant pastors who misunderstand the Church’s teaching!

Peace,
javelin
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The old argument goes like this,“it isn’t grace if you have to work for it”. Grace is a gift. Works render rewards and payment. Two diametrically opposed things.
 
Unfortunately, your son has a confused puppy for teacher this year. Be on guard to counter balance all the heresies your son may absorb at school. This is a sad state of affairs for a Catholic education.
 
Your sons teacher does not understand Catholic Dogma/teachings and he/she is clearly wrong. This is not good for a teacher at all.

When do to “rebuff” and “correct” your sons teacher please remeber to do it with “LOVE” as God commands. The teacher is obviously the pawn of protestant anti-Catholic propaganda so be nice about it.

There is 'f’aith that is like the faith we have in Jesus. The faith we have that Jesus rose. The faith we have in the Trinity.

The is also the 'F’aith we have that is everything we believe in as Christians. Jesus us told us that not all who call upon Him will be saved. He did command us to follow His commandments also. Doing good works does not save anyone, not even a Catholic! The Catholic Church has NEVER taught that either. Works is a part of our 'F’aith just like the 10 commandments and almsgiving and helping the porr and doing everything in Love. Jesus taught us that our 'F’aith is known by our works just like the fruit on a tree. No fruit then it is a dead tree.

Just a start. There are numerous parables that speak of works, like stored coins, oil in lamps etc. Your teacher just ignored them I guess?
 
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tru_dvotion:
Unfortunately, your son has a confused puppy for teacher this year. Be on guard to counter balance all the heresies your son may absorb at school. This is a sad state of affairs for a Catholic education.
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I disagree with you, tru. This teacher is not the LEAST bit confused; he is absolutely certain of what he says. “Confusion” is your very polite word for outright disregard of the truth. Lumping Catholicism with non-Christian relgions and believing that the Church teaches that we are actually saved by our own works is absolutely typical of anti-Catholic Fundamentalism.

Kerry, go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and review the sections on this. (I’ll bet your son’s teacher can’t tell you the difference between redemption, justification and salvation in a way that would hold up for five minutes). Quote and clip from the Catechism as necessary. Go for as SHORT an answer as possible that will make the point. Buy a copy for your son’s teacher. Smile gently and say to him that a lot of people believe that the Catholic Church teaches things that she has never taught.

Assure your son’s teacher that the Catholic Church has never taught that we are saved by our own works (Javelin did a great job of summarizing): if we could be saved by our own works, we wouldn’t need Jesus, would we?

If he poses a question or makes a statement about the Catholic faith that you can’t cope with, let him know you are relatively new to the faith and want to respond to his concerns correctly; tell him you will get back to him in a few days. Then go to the Catechism, and come here to us, work out a calm and authentic response, and do get back to him. Remember, you don’t need to convert this guy, you just need to show him that the Church might actually not be the Antichrist or the Whore of Babylon after all . . .
 
The church has never teach anyone to be saved by works.

C’mon guys we are saved by Grace through Faith. And we can’t earn Grace nor Faith.

Having seen how these people on the board insist on working their salvation, I think I begin to believe that Luther is correct when he said “faith alone”.

I really don’t know what to say anymore.
 
It is true that God saves us by his grace and not OF OURSELVES. There is NOTHING within us BY NATURE that we can offer God to obtain the salvation that is needed for our eternal salvation. This is what Paul meant in Eph 2;8.
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                              But God has given us a plan or way by which we can be saved by his grace. Just how is that grace given to us? It is given by the death of his Son and by the sacraments of the church. We can all agree that we certainly receive forgiveness through Christ's shed blood. But how do we receive Christ's blood? How do we come in contact with Christ himself. That is the KEY to understanding how we receive God's grace to save us. 

                               It is through the sacraments of the church. That is, faith, pennance, baptism and the Eucharist are the basic sacraments in receiving the forgiveness and blessings of Christ. THROUGH these sacraments we receive God's grace. We cannot receive God's grace and forgiveness apart from the sacraments of our blessed church. Because it is THROUGH the church and THROUGH the sacraments that salvation and eternal life is offered by God himself.
 
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rarndt01:
It is true that God saves us by his grace and not OF OURSELVES. There is NOTHING within us BY NATURE that we can offer God to obtain the salvation that is needed for our eternal salvation. This is what Paul meant in Eph 2;8.

But God has given us a plan or way by which we can be saved by his grace. Just how is that grace given to us? It is given by the death of his Son and by the sacraments of the church. We can all agree that we certainly receive forgiveness through Christ’s shed blood. But how do we receive Christ’s blood? How do we come in contact with Christ himself. That is the KEY to understanding how we receive God’s grace to save us.

It is through the sacraments of the church. That is, faith, pennance, baptism and the Eucharist are the basic sacraments in receiving the forgiveness and blessings of Christ. THROUGH these sacraments we receive God’s grace. We cannot receive God’s grace and forgiveness apart from the sacraments of our blessed church. Because it is THROUGH the church and THROUGH the sacraments that salvation and eternal life is offered by God himself.
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That is what the catholic church teaches, but church tradition does not meet with scripture on this issue. Therefore, some of the traditional doctrines of the church must be suspect and treated as secondary in this regard.
 
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ahimsaman72:
That is what the catholic church teaches, but church tradition does not meet with scripture on this issue. Therefore, some of the traditional doctrines of the church must be suspect and treated as secondary in this regard.
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The point here is not whether you agree that the Catholic Church teaches in accord with Scripture. The point is that a teacher in a Christian School finds it acceptable to list Catholics in the same class as non-Christians and also holds a highly incorrect view of Catholic soteriology, which needs to be corrected.
 
Kerry in WA:
My son attends a Protestant Christian school, and in his religion class we are running into some misunderstandings. I don’t really want to get into long theological discussions with his teacher, but he emailed me today when I sent him a note challenging the list in my son’s text that lumped Catholicism in the same category of other religions as Buddhism and Islam. Anyway, in his response he mentioned the “traditional” Catholic teaching that one is saved by what he does. I asked him if he meant salvation by works as in following the law, doing good works, or participating in the sacraments. I’m a recent convert, so I don’t know how to take this. Any thoughts to help me?
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Oh Nelly–look out!!! I would go right to the teacher in person and have a little chat. Because Catholicism is NOT in a group with non-Christian religions like Buddist or Islam. He has got to be extremely anti-Catholic, probably attending one of those “weird groups” of Fundamentalists.–very anti-Catholic. I would tell him you don’t appreciate him relaying ANTI-CATHOLIC sentiments to the students because he is relaying utterly false information, to begin with. Maybe print out some material from the internet to give to him. That’s what I did for my sons’s youth pastor at a Fundy mid-week church, and he hasn’t brought up anything like it again. Also—definately explain to your son that this teacher was very wrong in his knowledge of this anyway.

Good Luck!!!
 
I am in RCIA. Please correct me if you think I’m wrong.

I think 1 Corinthians Chapter 13 is a great text to use for Faith and Works (and love). How about this for an illustration.

We are physically alive if our heart is beating. Once your heart stops you are dead (unless you are in surgery or you are otherwise revived). When I was in gradeschool, I’m sure that we thought life stops when your heartbeat stops.

We are alive in Christ if we have received a Christian Heart from Him. Instead of our earthly stony heart. A Christian Heart prays without ceasing – it produces Christian works as long as it is beating. The only works that are acceptable (1 Cor 13 says so) are works that are done with Agape love – they must come from our Christ-given Heart.

Ezekiel 36:26 I will give you a new heart and place a new spirit within you, taking from your bodies your stony hearts and giving you natural hearts.

How do you get a Christ-given Heart?

(a) You can ask Jesus for it and He will give it to you if you repent and desire it. Another way to describe the word repent is that you want Jesus more than you want anything else – if any Protestants are “saved” this is how they are saved.

Or

(b) Receive the sacraments. For example in Holy Communion we receive Jesus.

Mortal sin can stop the Christian Heart from beating. So we can be spiritually dead. That is where the sacrament of Reconciliation comes in. Confession and Penance. This is why I needed to come to the Catholic Church.
 
Kerry in WA:
Anyway, in his response he mentioned the “traditional” Catholic teaching that one is saved by what he does.
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Kerry,

Are a couple of quotes from the Council of Trent on Justification traditional enopugh Catholic teaching. i will give you two in two posts.
And send him this link too for the whole context.

ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM#1

"HOW THE GRATUITOUS JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER BY FAITH IS TO BE UNDERSTOOD

But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely,[Rom. 3:24; 5:1] these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God[Heb 11:6] and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.

For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.[Rom. 11:6]"
 
"IN WHAT THE JUSTIFICATION OF THE SINNER CONSISTS, AND WHAT ARE ITS CAUSES

This disposition or preparation is followed by justification itself, which is not only a remission of sins but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes a friend, that he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting.[Tit.3:7]

The causes of this justification are:
the final cause is the glory of God and of Christ and life everlasting; the efficient cause is the merciful God who washes and sanctifies[See 1 Cor. 6:11] gratuitously, signing and anointing with the holy Spirit of promise, who is the pledge of our inheritance,[Eph. 1:13f] the meritorious cause is His most beloved only begotten, our Lord Jesus Christ, who, when we were enemies,[Rom. 5:10] for the exceeding charity wherewith he loved us, Eph. 2:4] merited for us justification by His most holy passion on the wood of the cross and made satisfaction for us to God the Father, the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which no man was ever justified finally, the single formal cause is the justice of God, not that by which He Himself is just, but that by which He makes us just, that, namely, with which we being endowed by Him, are renewed in the spirit of our mind,[Eph. 4:23] and not only are we reputed but we are truly called and are just, receiving justice within us, each one according to his own measure, which the Holy Ghost distributes to everyone as He wills,[See I Cor. 12:11] and according to each one’s disposition and cooperation.

For though no one can be just except he to whom the merits of the passion of our Lord Jesus Christ are communicated, yet this takes place in that justification of the sinner, when by the merit of the most holy passion, the charity of God is poured forth by the Holy Ghost in the hearts[Rom 5:5] of those who are justified and inheres in them; whence man through Jesus Christ, in whom he is ingrafted, receives in that justification, together with the remission of sins, all these infused at the same time, namely, faith, hope and charity.

For faith, unless hope and charity be added to it, neither unites man perfectly with Christ nor makes him a living member of His body.

For which reason it is most truly said that faith without works is dead[James 2:17, 20] and of no profit, and in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision, but faith that worketh by charity.[Gal 5:6, 6:15]

This faith, conformably to Apostolic tradition, catechumens ask of the Church before the sacrament of baptism, when they ask for the faith that gives eternal life, which without hope and charity faith cannot give.

Whence also they hear immediately the word of Christ:
If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.[Matt. 19:17]

Wherefore, when receiving true and Christian justice, they are commanded, immediately on being born again, to preserve it pure and spotless, as the first robe[Luke 15:22] given them through Christ Jesus in place of that which Adam by his disobedience lost for himself and for us, so that they may bear it before the tribunal of our Lord Jesus Christ and may have life eternal."

ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/TRENT6.HTM#1
 
Let’s face it. As long as your son attends a Protestant Christian school, he is not going to be learning the truth about Catholic teaching!
 
Hello Kerry,

Jesus tells us that only those who love Him by obeying His commands and feeding the poor will inherit eternal life. Both Jesus and we Christians know that the only path to eternal life for we sinners, is through the blood of Jesus.

The way people go to heaven is through Jesus, the reason people go to heaven is because they love God and love for God is accomplished through free from the will of God obedience to the will of God.

NIV JOH 14:15

**“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” **

**NAB JOH 12:47 **

"If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken - it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life,…"

NAB MAT 25:31
**
**"Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
NAB JOH 14:21

"He who obeys the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father. I too will love him and reveal myself to him."

NAB REV 2:22

"I mean to cast her down on a bed of pain; her companions in sin I will plunge into intense suffering unless they repent of their sins with her, and her children I will put to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds, and that I will give each of you what your conduct deserves."Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
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