Saying No?

[chevalier]

Wait, are you saying that there is never a valid reason to say “Not tonight dear”?

That’s what we’re talking about here, what at least my parents were taught: you can never say no unless you’re very ill or just had a baby.

No, of course not. I’m saying we shouldn’t really be talking about “valid reasons”, “just causes” and “duty” here. This is almost legal vocabulary and legal thinking is certainly not what love is about. My point is also there’s something wrong with both denying it and emotionally extorting it, meaning something’s wrong between the couple.

Those people who say you can’t say no unless very ill or something like that probably take into consideration that one needs to care for the spouse’s needs. But this doesn’t mean the spouse can “legally enforce it”.

And yeah, you can always say no. Each spouse always can. But there is no such thing as a right that can make us morally entitled to do as well please regardless of how it affects others. This is true both of the right to ask and the right to refuse. Yes, one can, but it’s not always the right thing to do or a good thing to do. When there’s a clash and the one person denies while the other pressures, they’re probably both thinking each of himself instead of thinking about the other. Marriage involves giving up some control. It’s only expected that each spouse will sometimes not have sex despite feeling like some, and will sometimes do it despite not feeling like it. Their rights are equal and neither can be in total control of the when and where.

I suppose a good check is treat others like you’d like to be treated. That should probably solve most problems with pressuring or denying. Legalese will not make it. You can force one to do whatever you like, but you can’t force one to do what you want willingly and willingly is how people want sex in marriage.

Wanted to point out that our husbands can still feel rejecyed even if we are legitimately tired or busy. It takes a lot to make oneself vulnerable to another…and for men sexually is probably the most difficult. If we turn them down for that then they take a major blow to the self esteem…

Actually, isn’t the blow to a rejected woman all that much harder? It’s just it happens more rarely, but from what I’ve seen or heard, women have it worse with rejection if it actually happens to them. I imagine it would be the same with the “not today” marital issue.

Sigh. This post is already too long of someone who’s only talked about marriage. I suppose I just love talking about morality since morality is so much better than law, which is my trade.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Actually, isn’t the blow to a rejected woman all that much harder? It’s just it happens more rarely, but from what I’ve seen or heard, women have it worse with rejection if it actually happens to them.
**
It is definitely hard for either spouse to be rejected. I just meant that most often times us wives inadvertently cause our husbands pain because what they feel as rejection we never intended. When a man rejects his wife it is usually much clearer and more personal…often intentional.**

 

[Island_Oak]

I recently read a paragraph in a (Christian) marriage book that said that it is a sin for either spouse to deny the other the marital act, regardless of circumstances such as being too tired, not in the mood, etc. Is this true? Are there circumstances in which one can or should say no?

Proof positive that common sense is far more effective than 99.9% of the advice contained in “marriage books.”

 

[chevalier]

**
Feanaro's Wife:

It is definitely hard for either spouse to be rejected. I just meant that most often times us wives inadvertently cause our husbands pain because what they feel as rejection we never intended. When a man rejects his wife it is usually much clearer and more personal…often intentional.

**

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It may look like that, but then if we consider that sometimes women also reject intentionally and women generally reject more often, won’t the ratios of intentional rejection be similar for both genders?

 

[kage_ar]

Advice, first read all the great teaching on marriage by the Church, then read all the books by Catholic authors. When you finish those, if you still have time left, move to Protestant books.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

It may look like that, but then if we consider that sometimes women also reject intentionally and women generally reject more often, won’t the ratios of intentional rejection be similar for both genders?

:hypno:

uch:

You’re making my head spin
**
I’m not going any deeper into it…lol**

 

[Belgarion]

Isn’t it just wrong to say “No” when a situation caused by one leads to the other getting “revved-up” and yet the one who caused the situation doesn’t feel like it?

Er…that’s what I read…But I can see why people would think its wrong to say no, period. though I myself am more inclined to think that saying “no” is not morally inacceptable. Except in my first stated case.

 

[blessourhome]

Advice, first read all the great teaching on marriage by the Church, then read all the books by Catholic authors. When you finish those, if you still have time left, move to Protestant books.

I agree. The only reason I flipped through it was because I was trying to find a specific topic. I haven’t even read the whole book. We didn’t purchase it; someone randomly gave it to us.

Yes, Belgarion, that case you refer to is so infuriating. That would definitely be sinful to intentionally cause and then say no, I think.