Scandal if I do scandal if I don't?

[eileen_annette]

Hi- this is my first post and at the moment I am going around in circles trying to work out what to do -I guess I should look for further spiritual direction but there doesn’t seem to be anyoneon the horizon. So I thought I would just run my story by you all as maybe I cannot see the wood for the trees.
My marriage ended almost 15 years ago it had been going wrong for many years and I wanted out -at that time my faith was weak although I took my children to Mass all along. Shortly afterwards I met another man and began a relationship with him and we had a child, This went on for a number of years but through various interventions ,the Rosary played a big part, I began to see that we couldnt continue in this way. So at my instigation we bagan living together as brother and sister . during this time I had applied to the tribunal and after five years my marriage was annulled. My ‘partner’ also a catholic and married said he didnt see the point of annulments and wouldnt have his marriage looked at because it would stir everything up . His daughter from the marriage doesnt speak to him as he never maintained his family -he was an alcoholic , recovering now for about ten years.
Living together because of our child and when there seemed to be the possibility of redeeming our relationship -marriage if we both were annulled. However this doesnt look likely now and he has been avoiding the issue so Im wondering are we entitled to continue as we are or should we live separately now. Most of my neighbours , workmates and priests know the situation.
Mt parish priest was noncommittal except to say that it is avery unusual situation. There is no occasion of sin as the sexual issue doesnt cause any problem for either of us and we consciously dont socialise together. I guess there still is an emotional tie there and wonder if this is an attachment I shouldn’t have.

Many many thanks

EA

 

[Courtneyjo]

You have an attachment to this man based on an illicit relationship, and also because he is your child’s father. While you are in your current arrangement, you are foregoing Holy Matrimony. To your child you may well appear married, as well as to others who don’t know the details.

Your house-mate is holding power over you by not getting an annullment, and you are cooperating in this.

Discernment about your vocation is called for. Is God calling you to be single, married, or in a Josephite marriage? How can you live in best service to God?

Instead of a spiritual advisor, perhaps you can find a Catholic therapist or counselor in your area. www.catholictherapists.com

 

[Cupofkindness]

It sounds like you need to set aside some time and have a heart to heart talk to him about where your futures are leading the two of you as a couple. But first, be very clear in your own mind what you want. Do you love this man anymore? Is he a good father and provider for his child? Does he love you? Your child? Your other children? What do you think he wants? You say he is a recovering alcoholic, does he go to a program like AA? Is he sexually involved with another woman? It is of note that he has stayed with you for many years under a condition (being chaste) that most men in that situation would run away from. So there is something good about him. However, it sounds as if things are cold between the two of you. What would your life look like as a single woman? How long have you been living together? Take some time to write your thoughts down and mull them over before you talk to him. The less emotional you are and the calmer and more reasonable you sound to him, the better you two can work this out.

Keep praying so that you can remain as detached as possible, in that way, God’s plan for your life will become clearer. It may well be God’s plan for you two to get married, but of course, his annulment has to go through. I’m just wondering if he is afraid to look at his first marriage as the church might see it. Do you know of any holy priest who could help this man understand that an annulment is a good thing, it frees you emotionally even if you never plan to marry again. That an annulment could be the beginning of a great healing for him?

It appears that God is moving you toward a change of some sort. You and your family are in my prayers.

 

[eileen_annette]

Thank you for the replies -

My main concern is in a 'josephite 'marriage such as this would I still be a cause of scandal…
I dont have access to a catholic therapist as such.

I dont know whether or not I love him -I probably do still care for him -but feel I have to detach and this probably appears as coldness.
He attends AA, is a good enough father -a bit erratic,moral, is polite but detached with my family from my marriage, not involved in another relationship and is quite ok with things continuing as they are.

EA

 

[Princess_Abby]

How would this situation have room for a Josephite marriage if the male half is still married to his original spouse in the eyes of God and the Church?

 

[Courtneyjo]

eileen annette:

Thank you for the replies -

My main concern is in a 'josephite 'marriage such as this would I still be a cause of scandal…
I dont have access to a catholic therapist as such.

I dont know whether or not I love him -I probably do still care for him -but feel I have to detach and this probably appears as coldness.
He attends AA, is a good enough father -a bit erratic,moral, is polite but detached with my family from my marriage, not involved in another relationship and is quite ok with things continuing as they are.

EA

And you’re not okay with things going as they are. The Spirit is working in your life. You have to be prepared to live on your own. If you can’t get a Catholic counselor, can you seek another priest, and tell him what you’ve said here. You said you’ve seen a priest already, but you can still look for another. Make an appointment.

You couldn’t have a Josephite marriage while your “friend” is still married to his wife, but it sounds like you don’t want this anyway.

 

[LSK]

eileen annette:

Thank you for the replies -

My main concern is in a 'josephite 'marriage such as this would I still be a cause of scandal…
I dont have access to a catholic therapist as such.

I dont know whether or not I love him -I probably do still care for him -but feel I have to detach and this probably appears as coldness.
He attends AA, is a good enough father -a bit erratic,moral, is polite but detached with my family from my marriage, not involved in another relationship and is quite ok with things continuing as they are.

EA

The website given to you for catholic therapists? There are a few who will ‘see you’ by telephone.

I think you have some real, difficult questions to be answered. And while I can spout off about 'why did you do this?" and “what were you thinking when you did THAT?” the fact is, you have a child to consider, the state of your immortal soul and the soul of your child’s father to consider. What you do will set an example for her as to how a woman should be perceived by a man, and how a woman deserves to be treated by a man.

My sister-in-Christ, I think you are on the right track by reconcilling yourself with the Holy Mother Church and adding prayer and the Sacraments to your life. Frequent examination of conscience and the Sacrament of Reconciliation can only help you with your discernment as to what your next action should be…whatever it is, you are in our prayers. Remember, pray pray pray…for if you walk with the Lord and His Mother, you are NOT walking alone!

 

[BLB_Oregon]

eileen annette:

I’m wondering are we entitled to continue as we are or should we live separately now.

Let’s get away from entitled–are you doing anything wrong–and ask yourself to look at your calling. Are you doing what you should be doing? With respect to your housemate–he can’t be a Josephite husband unless he can be a husband of the normal kind–ask yourself what your function is in his life? Are you supporting a life of sobriety for him, or are you enabling him to avoid a full commitment as your husband and a full supporter of your roles as wife and mother? Is this arrangement helping or hindering his example to your son of what a husband and father should be?

How about you? Are you modelling the behavior that you want your son to expect from his future wife? Are you tolerating that which is intolerable, in order to avoid conflict and insecurity, or are you making a personal sacrifice in order to support your partner’s daily journey to sanctity and sobriety? And in your “marriage”… are you seeing to it that he keeps at the tasks that marriage requires, or are you letting him evade them and counting that as sanctifying sacrifice on your own part?

Only you can say. The only thing that makes me suspect that this is an unhealthy situation is that you sound as if sex within a marriage is some sort of an optional condiment. Your sex life ended not because the two of you chose together to sacrifice your sex life for the sake of sanctity, but because you made the moral judgement that it was an illicit relationship in the first place. Now it would seem that you are willing to sacrifice it so that your husband doesn’t have to “stir everything up.” Sex is a positive good, a gift from God for the good of marriage. Do not give it up lightly.

If you stay in the present arrangement, do so because you choose it as a positive good, not because it is so much easier than what would really be the best for the souls of all involved. To settle for mediocrity is a scandal, not to the whole world necessarily, but for your son and your other children.

“Settling” is one of the most common sin of Christians–usually it is called sloth or acedia–and courage is for many the most difficult virtue. Hang in there, and whenever you slip or fall, be certain that God is always waiting–not in disappointment but in ardor!–to pick you up, make you clean again, and set you again on His Path. He will not stop with you until you are made perfect. Do not wait until the day you can do it without fears or mistakes, because that day isn’t coming. You will make a million mistakes on the road to Heaven. There is no better day to start making mistakes in the right direction than today.

If there is a personality that is most prone to both addiction and enabling, it is the personality that lacks courage in the face of conflict. This is a cross that many carry, including me. Its remedy is the grace of courage, a gift from God which, somewhat ironically, requires some courage to accept. What you cannot do in yourself, God can do. He can do this in us!

PS I assume that you are in a support group to help you with these questions, such as Al-Anon? Pray for me, I’ll be praying for you.

 

[Cupofkindness]

Eileen:

I must say that I agree with Leslie’s post completely. She is wonderful and her advice is so very good. And thank you Eileen for reading all of these posts. It takes a certain level of maturity and openness to do so. I’m sure that God will bless you as you seek His will.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

BLB_Oregon:

Is this arrangement helping or hindering his example to your son of what a husband and father should be?

To settle for mediocrity is a scandal, not to the whole world necessarily, but for your son and your other children.

You said child, but somehow since the child from his other marriage is a daughter, I got it into my head that the child you had with him was a son.

Son, daughter, they both learn marriage from you. That is the scandal that should be of primary concern.

 

[eileen_annette]

Again many thanks for all your contributions -your clarity of thought amazes me and I see truth in all of what you say, some I am aware of-
'the fact is, you have a child to consider, the state of your immortal soul and the soul of your child’s father to consider. ’ I just dont know , and have prayed about it a lot, about two years ago I put an ultimatum if you like, to my house mate -try and redeem our relationship or separate -he wouldnt discuss at all and moved out , subsequently said that I had forced the isssue and given time he would think about this -well feeling that I had acted rashly (maybe) I asked him back , he came but I 'm not sure if he resented this and since then has been more detached. He has appeared to consider our situation but in reality has done nothing and has been untruthful. He is very much afraid that our son will blame him if he leaves and refuses to talk to me about it unless it gets raised in anger and then he goes to talk to an AA member, and will not discuss when he comes back.In other ways he is changing with regard to his faith and is more accepting , alot to do with the conversion that has come about on all my family.

‘Are you tolerating that which is intolerable’… Again I dont know , does it appear so?

*‘Are you seeeing that he keeps to the tasks that marriage requires, or letting him evade.’…*This may sound unbelievable but I dont know what tasks marriage requires so again I cannot answer even to myself.

‘…a positive good’… I ask myself if it could be a positive good,- could good come out of a situation like this. -**if **I could be sure that I am not committing sin and could receive the sacraments ,and could feel relaxed about continuing the way we are , (you see I have asked more than one priest and have been told it is ok but I cannot seem to accept that) then I see more good in eveything staying as it is than toing and froing with access and part time fathering.
I have attened al anon in the early days of recovery but found at times that attitudes conflicted with my own spiritual discerning.

May God Bless all of you for your time and thoughfulness.

Eileen

 

[eileen_annette]

Courtneyjo:

Your house-mate is holding power over you by not getting an annullment, and you are cooperating in this.

Would this be the more accurate description of my situation, am I rationalising with everything else??

eileen

 

[BLB_Oregon]

eileen annette:

Courtneyjo:

Your house-mate is holding power over you by not getting an annullment, and you are cooperating in this

.

Would this be the more accurate description of my situation, am I rationalising with everything else??

eileen
Maybe. But the truth is that from our distance, we cannot know. We don’t know you, we don’t know your housemate, we don’t know the children and extended families involved, we don’t know what facts might be left out. That two priests who do know you haven’t yet given you a definitive answer gives reason for a dose of humble caution.

As Thomas Merton said, we all journey as fog-bound steamers. If you are asking if these questions you have for yourself are reasonable, the answer is yes. You have been given ample food for thought and prayer. Continue to search them, to “chew” on them, and walk with care, sister. There are many things about your situation that have caused good people to go wrong in the desire to do well. Also, consider that what begs for patience today may tomorrow require refusal. This is a situation that should be re-visited often, a true walk in the wilderness.

Remember the most common quote in Scripture, too: Do not be afraid. Whatever you face, cling to our God, take courage, and do not be afraid. Even if you should fall, He will not forsake you. Never ever let the tempter lead you to despair.