Scandal in the church

[ahimsaman72]

I might get banned, but my honest intent is to see how other Catholics are dealing the sex scandal in the Church. What do you say when non-Catholics bring it up? And is there a way our local priests can be checked out by us (or by anyone) before joining a particular parish? I wish no harm, but this subject has to be discussed. There’s nothing wrong with questioning.

Peace,

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

I am Protestant so I will not comment on the scandal, but I will comment on your quote:
“Non-violence never hurt anybody” - ME
Chamberlin practiced non violence with Adolph Hitler. He gave Hitler Poland. How many poles were killed over that nonviolent move?

 

[1ke]

ahimsaman72:

I might get banned, but my honest intent is to see how other Catholics are dealing the sex scandal in the Church. What do you say when non-Catholics bring it up? And is there a way our local priests can be checked out by us (or by anyone) before joining a particular parish? I wish no harm, but this subject has to be discussed. There’s nothing wrong with questioning.

Peace,

Basically, regarding the scandal-- nothing new-- the Church has had scandal since the beginning, evidenced by reading Paul’s writings to the Corinthians, Colossians, etc, exhorting them to stop their licentious ways and repent. And, also, Jesus himself promised the wheat and chaf would grow together until the end of time. The Church is perfectly Holy. The great beauty in that is that the holiness comes from Christ, and flows to us who need it-- the sinners. So the Church is not holy because of us, but despite us.

As to checking out priests, I would say call the diocesan office. There’s not a way to know for sure-- but this is true for teachers, daycare workers, scout leaders, and numerous others who have more contact with children than priests.

 

[Grayton]

A non-Catholic asked why my family continued going to a Catholic Church after the scandals became public. It was an opportunity for us to explain that, as Catholics, we go to Mass to worship the Lord, and that we don’t look to the individual character of the priest. Some priests are great, some are mediocre, and a few are really bad. But the Mass is separate.

This response seemed to surprise this person. For many Protestants, the personal characteristics of the ministers attract and keeps them attending a particular church. I hope that our answer got this individual thinking about what worship means.

 

[puppylove]

Go to www.catholic.com and read in the Answers Guide “Scandal in the Church”. It should enlighten you enough to be able to explain this to anyone who questions your faith.

Puppy

P.S. Please pray for the Hurricane Charley victims.!

 

[Annunciata]

Grayton:

A non-Catholic asked why my family continued going to a Catholic Church after the scandals became public. It was an opportunity for us to explain that, as Catholics, we go to Mass to worship the Lord, and that we don’t look to the individual character of the priest. Some priests are great, some are mediocre, and a few are really bad. But the Mass is separate.

This response seemed to surprise this person. For many Protestants, the personal characteristics of the ministers attract and keeps them attending a particular church. I hope that our answer got this individual thinking about what worship means.

Good answer!
We are faced w/ this ‘Scandal’ on almost a daily basis here in MA…we’re really feeling the effects of it in the closing of many parishes, etc… Many people are leaving…my parish in particular due to the support our pastor gives to some of the worst offenders in constantly defending them in homilies… saying they were falsely accused… NOT! Annunciata

 

[bear06]

The devil will try hardest to demolish the One True Church. He will use anything and anyone he can to do this. He will find people to infiltrate to TRY and bring it down. Look at the saints. Look how many of them the devil tried to get. Don’t you ever wonder how many more people on the road to sainthood didn’t make it due to the attacks from the devil?

We need to do our part to strengthen ourselves and our brethren by praying, fasting, etc. We also need to take heart in the fact that no matter how defective we are in this endeavor, the Church will NEVER be destroyed.

Didn’t Mother Teresa say something to the effect that there’s no such thing as a bad priest - only those who don’t pray enough for them? I’ve never actually thought this was totally accurate but I do believe there are great priests who we can help to resist Satan if we pray and there are those bad priests who might overcome him if we pray. So the point was made.

This may sound funny but these scandals never even made our family flinch. This attack of Satan was almost to be expected. It grieves us but it is always darkest before dawn.

 

[PKK]

The scandal didn’t make our family flinch either. We know we are in the true church. Sex scandals are everywhere not just the Catholic church. If you read the small print you will find that it has been in just about all churchs in one fashion or another. It has been in families and day cares and just about everywhere. When someone asks me about it, I simply state that it is another attack from Satan against the church, and if you take statistics, it is not even 1% of the Priests who are involved. Yes these men should be made accountable for their actions, but it doesn’t change the church, they are not THE church, and have been poor representatives. The Catholic Church is just brought into the spotlight because certain people would love to see it brought down, because of the moral stance it takes. The article by Catholic Answers as mention above is a very good read on the scandal. As far as checking a priest out, I am not sure. My big thing is that you get to know him, and most peoples instincts are good. When you get involved in the parish you get to know the priest as well as other people in the parish, and this goes a long way toward knowing what type of person the priest is. Probably better than even going to the Diocese.

 

[asquared]

you won’t get banned, and this is the right forum for your post. this is an issue every Catholic family must address. parents have no right to ignore anything that may impact the safety of their children, or that might undermine their faith. all dioceses have implemented criminal background checks for priests, all other employees, and all volunteers who come in contact with children. they have also set up mandatory orientations for those persons covering abuse prevention and recognition, and made them sign a code of ethics.

that’s great, but the programs most dioceses are using-VIRTUS, Protecting God’s People, has grave deficiencies. don’t rely on your “people knowledge”, many of the parents of victims thought the abuser priests were their friends, and their parishioners continued to defend them because they were so well-liked.

while you are protecting your children against potential abuse from church officials, watch out for their public school. a researcher for the NEA has found that in the NYC schools alone over 2 million children have been abused by school personnel over the last 30 eyars, by over 200,000 teachers, coaches, bus drivers, custodians etc. Fewer than 10percent of abusers received any disciplinary action at all, 90 percent retained their jobs, less than 2 percent were prosecuted and punished in the criminal justice system.

contrast this to 15,000 victims of less than 5,000 priests in this country over the last 40 years. as soon as I locate the website for documentation I will post it here. this is a systemic societal problem in the western world. Parents, wake up.

 

[ahimsaman72]

asquared:

you won’t get banned, and this is the right forum for your post. this is an issue every Catholic family must address. parents have no right to ignore anything that may impact the safety of their children, or that might undermine their faith. all dioceses have implemented criminal background checks for priests, all other employees, and all volunteers who come in contact with children. they have also set up mandatory orientations for those persons covering abuse prevention and recognition, and made them sign a code of ethics.

that’s great, but the programs most dioceses are using-VIRTUS, Protecting God’s People, has grave deficiencies. don’t rely on your “people knowledge”, many of the parents of victims thought the abuser priests were their friends, and their parishioners continued to defend them because they were so well-liked.

while you are protecting your children against potential abuse from church officials, watch out for their public school. a researcher for the NEA has found that in the NYC schools alone over 2 million children have been abused by school personnel over the last 30 eyars, by over 200,000 teachers, coaches, bus drivers, custodians etc. Fewer than 10percent of abusers received any disciplinary action at all, 90 percent retained their jobs, less than 2 percent were prosecuted and punished in the criminal justice system.

contrast this to 15,000 victims of less than 5,000 priests in this country over the last 40 years. as soon as I locate the website for documentation I will post it here. this is a systemic societal problem in the western world. Parents, wake up.

thank you for your response here. I am father to three little girls and I am always concerned for their safety. I know this is not just a priestly issue, it’s a worldwide issue. Just like you said, there are teachers, principals - all kinds of people who abuse our children. I know the media concentrates only in the direction of the Church. I have read the article on the website. It is good, but I wanted to know from people in the trenches, mothers, fathers, etc not just from clergy.

we all do need to wake up to abuse going on all around us. I would like to see some numbers like you indicated above somewhere to where I can print it out and review it and give to those who may question us on this issue.

God bless!!!

By the way, I love my newfound faith in the Catholic Church. I don’t want to tear her down, but help build her up. I will be praying for all clergy.

 

[T.A.Stobie_SFO]

My response is that there is sin everywhere in the world, and unfortunately that include the Church.

I would also recommend that they read what I feel should be done about abuses which you can find in this document Suggestions for a Comprehensive Abuse Policy for the Roman Catholic Church in America.

The larger scandal is the failure to strongly teach morals in today’s society in every parish in every diocese. (some do, some do not.)

 

[ahimsaman72]

Lilyofthevalley:

I am Protestant so I will not comment on the scandal, but I will comment on your quote:
“Non-violence never hurt anybody” - ME
Chamberlin practiced non violence with Adolph Hitler. He gave Hitler Poland. How many poles were killed over that nonviolent move?

What?:bigyikes:

So using your rationale, if someone comes to rob me and my son, and I give him the money to make him go away, but then the robber turns around and kills my son, am I at fault???
Last I knew, Hitler and his henchmen pulled the triggers and turned the gas on in the chambers - not “Chamberlin”. The analogy, “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” comes to my mind.

Look at the millions of people given freedom from oppression using non-violence approach by Ghandi and MLK Jr. The quote literally means non-violence doesn’t physically hurt others, but obviously violence does physically hurt others.

I just don’t know what to say to your comment. Maybe I took it wrong or something???

Peace!

 

[Fergal]

I have to say, a very heavy sadness for all those who have been abused. My heart truly goes out to each onew of them.
This sadness is always accompanied with great hope and dare I say delight that the Church is being cleansed.
We must remember that Jesus himself said that nothing would remain covered up:

Luke 8:16-21

[16] "No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light. [17] For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. [18] Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him.

From this we know that the Holy Spirit is truly active within the Church for the words of Christ asre being carried out in our time as He promised they would.

These perpetraters of evil disguised as ‘people of Christ’ obviously never believed He would triumph.

Well Suprise suprise

Fergal
naas
ireland

 

[itsjustdave1988]

A non-Catholic asked why my family continued going to a Catholic Church after the scandals became public.

I’ve been asked similar questions. I respond by asking them how they can continue to be American after Clinton’s scandalous behavior. Seems to place things into perspective for them.

I for one know that my U.S. government is comprised of a bunch of sinners, yet I believe my nation is worthy my loyalty, just the same.

Even more so my Church!! The Church is waging a war against sin that exists within and outside her visible ecclesiastical community. It is a body of believers established not by men, as the U.S. was established, but the Church was established by God. Is there a sinless institution out there that is more worthy of my loyalty? If so, I haven’t found it.

 

[ahimsaman72]

T.A.Stobie:

My response is that there is sin everywhere in the world, and unfortunately that include the Church.

I would also recommend that they read what I feel should be done about abuses which you can find in this document Suggestions for a Comprehensive Abuse Policy for the Roman Catholic Church in America.

The larger scandal is the failure to strongly teach morals in today’s society in every parish in every diocese. (some do, some do not.)

Thanks for the link, T.A.! That’s what I was looking for. Yes, sadly that includes the church. Coming from a protestant background, we always tended to hold pastors accountable on the same level as the Pope. So, through those darkened glasses it’s very difficult for me to think of clergy doing those kinds of things. See what I mean? As distorted as that is, that’s my reality and background. I love the holy Catholic church and wish to defend her and stand by her. I’ve just got to grow in my newfound faith. I’m trying.

God bless!

 

[sullivansoul]

Lilyofthevalley:

I am Protestant so I will not comment on the scandal, but I will comment on your quote:
“Non-violence never hurt anybody” - ME
Chamberlin practiced non violence with Adolph Hitler. He gave Hitler Poland. How many poles were killed over that nonviolent move?

Aha! I knew I wasn’t the only Polish sympathizer out there!!! LOL !

 

[ahimsaman72]

itsjustdave1988:

I’ve been asked similar questions. I respond by asking them how they can continue to be American after Clinton’s scandalous behavior. Seems to place things into perspective for them.

I for one know that my U.S. government is comprised of a bunch of sinners, yet I believe my nation is worthy my loyalty, just the same.

Even more so my Church!! The Church is waging a war against sin that exists within and outside her visible ecclesiastical community. It is a body of believers established not by men, as the U.S. was established, but the Church was established by God. Is there a sinless institution out there that is more worthy of my loyalty? If so, I haven’t found it.

Great answers, Dave. Thank you for sharing!
God bless!