Scandal

[Scottgun]

When we do something scandalous but say that if other people take it the wrong way that’s their problem, then they are basically giving the “Am I my brother’s keeper?” objection. The answer of course is that dodge didn’t work for Cain and it ain’t going to work for cohabitation. We have not only an obligation to from doing wrong, but even of giving the appearence of doing wrong. This is out of concern for people other than ouselves.

 

[surfinpure]

I’m in the same boat as you. My husband and I don’t use any form of family planning, artificial or otherwise. I get pregnant very rarely (from symptoms I’m guessing about once per year, although I don’t test anymore) and when I do I lose the babies by the 5th week of pregnancy. Yet as we’ve been married nearly 5 years and we both work, I’m sure the assumption is that we use contraceptives. I’ve never been able to get a straight answer as to whether or not we are causing scandal simply by the circumstances of our situation and if so, what we should do about it.

Jen,

First off, I’m so sorry you’ve lost your babies. What a horribly painful thing to endure. May God send you his mercy and grace to help you get through these times.

We are currently in a position that requires us to space our babies a bit further apart than we’d like, and I’ve often been worried folks might conclude that we contracept. The best approach I know of to head off this assumption is simply to bring it up in conversation. I usually say something like, “Well, I really want another baby soon, but we have to wait because of our situation. This is driving my mother nuts, because she’s afraid without contraception we’ll get pregnant again by accident; but NFP has worked very well so far!” I’m not shy about mentioning this even to people I don’t know very well, because I consider it part of my evangelization to the non-Catholic or pseudo-Catholic world.

I don’t know how comfortable you’d be in discussing it, especially given the painful nature of your situation. I do have one friend who, when someone asks her if her little boy is her first, answers, “Yes, but we have two in heaven.” I’ve always thought this was a beautiful way of letting others know that she is open to life, and also how valuable those two little lives are to her. A very pro-life message!

Blessings,

mary

 

[Island_Oak]

… I just find that the catholics that I know seem to be the most judgemental people that I know (I understand because I guess I do it too - I just dont think its right)…

While I think people on an anonymous internet forum tend to be far more open, pointed (and perhaps at times even harsh) with their criticism, I have to disagree heartily with your observation when it comes to daily personal interaction. I find Catholics to be some of the least judgemental–as in condemning–people around. I think it’s because we have such a good grasp on the concepts of confession, forgiveness, free-will, grace and the ever-present struggle against sin in the human condition. In my own family, I have seen this in practice many times~wherein sin and sinful conduct is named for what it is, but there is an equal recognition that every individual is capable of change, contrition and forgivenss and to be welcomed back into the fullness of the faith at any time. It’s what keeps this old sinner coming back for more no matter how discouraged, frustrated, etc. I might get in the process.

 

[YinYangMom]

So I guess whilst my OP was a rant now its more of a question why is that so many of us choose to cast the first stone in the name of ‘righteousness’?

Because this is a Catholic board. If you come on here to ask about the morality of a particular action then you’re going to get Catholc answers. Yes, some here deliver the message more charitably than others, but the answer will be the same, for the most part.

You started the thread as a rant, as you acknowledged, but missed your own point. YOU note that you know what God wants and you make your own decisions, then leave it to God to determine whether or not your decision pleases Him. If it doesn’t, and you kinda figured it wouldn’t, you note that you hope to make a confession to make things right later on.

Well, we Christians can’t bank on later on, that’s just it. People who jump on you immediately to say STOP! no matter what the extenuating circumstances you’re facing are looking at the situation as if you were to get hit by the banana truck as soon as you leave the computer and walk out the door.

We are blessed with the sacrament of reconciliation but should never ‘fall back’ on that gift when faced with decisions. With regard to your decision to not cohabitate, you did so because you knew the teachings and you chose to apply them to your life. Wonderful! But what if you had chosen not to apply it? You seem to be saying that was your choice and no one else has the right to call you on making it. But you’re here on a Catholic board, you state you know the teaching and would then state you chose not to follow it. THAT is the scandal people here talk about. When you are informed and still choose the wrong path, then you bring scandal into your life. It’s not that people are passing judgement on your actions, you are putting forth a scandal for all to see but get upset when the child says the emperor has no clothes.

It is what it is, I guess. Why get upset with the people who call the situation as it is? We do it not out of righteousness, but out of love. If we keep quiet and you died tomorrow in a state of sin because of your choice, we carry a part of the burden there. The Lord blessed us in confirmation with wisdom, fortitude, fear of the Lord and all those other gifts we are to call upon to be strong in the face of challenges. Well, when asked an opinion if we choose to keep mum because we don’t want to appear judgemental or hurt the other person’s feelings then where’s the courage?

 

[SeekerJen]

For my part, I know at least two couples who, from all outside appearances, appear to be faithful Catholics. These couples have no children. My presumptions is that they have fertility problems. That is, after all, the more charitable assumption. I think most other faithful Catholics would make a similar presumption.

God bless you. I would like to hope that people like you are in the majority, but I’ve read enough posts that disparage couples with few or no children as obviously being “cafeteria” Catholics (with no evidence to back this up other than family size) that I’m not convinced. Faced with that attitude it’s hard not to see my life as a scandal if it leads people to believe such things. Thank God for people like you, though, and all of you who have said such kind things.

 

[rpp]

God bless you. I would like to hope that people like you are in the majority, but I’ve read enough posts that disparage couples with few or no children as obviously being “cafeteria” Catholics (with no evidence to back this up other than family size) that I’m not convinced. Faced with that attitude it’s hard not to see my life as a scandal if it leads people to believe such things. Thank God for people like you, though, and all of you who have said such kind things.

I should add that a small degree of this attitude comes from experience. One of my brothers and his wife had significant problems in this area. She eventually gave birth to two wonderful daughters, but it took them nearly ten years to get there. I personally know of the great despair and anguish they went through.

It is always more charitable to presume that, when multiple possibilities exist, that a person is not committing grave sins. At the same time, one must not twist himself into logical knots in order to draw such conclusions. For example if I saw a couple with no children that has the ever popular bumper sticker “Keep your rosaries off my ovaries”, I would probably draw different conclusions.

 

[kycanonist]

From a canon law perspective, the term “scandal” has a very specific meaning…

When something causes “scandal” it is that which leads people to believe something untrue about the Faith as true.

So, in this particular OP’s situation, the “scandal” is that people are led to believe that living together outside of the bonds of marriage is acceptable to the Church, which is not true. Therefore, it is scandalous. It’s not a matter of moral indignation as much as it is about the fact that people are being led to believe something about Church teaching that is not true.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

The only possible thing I could think of is that infertile couples be more open with their struggles. As painful as it must be it would plant seeds in others’ heads that contraception is not the ONLY reason that couples are childless. But I wouldn’t expect you to do this and I doubt anyone else would either. Just a thought

I think that is a great point. Another benefit of being open about it is that people will see that there are people out there with fertility problems who do not resort to IVF or other immoral methods. I think these days it is practically assumed that if you are not able to conceive naturally, of course you’ll try everything scientifically available. The witness of a person who says “no” to an immoral act, even though it may be heartbreaking, is very strong. Like Malia, I wouldn’t dare to expect a couple struggling with infertility expose themselves in this way. But if a person felt called to share their struggles with others, it would probably have a big spiritual effect.

 

[surfinpure]

I think that is a great point. Another benefit of being open about it is that people will see that there are people out there with fertility problems who do not resort to IVF or other immoral methods. I think these days it is practically assumed that if you are not able to conceive naturally, of course you’ll try everything scientifically available. The witness of a person who says “no” to an immoral act, even though it may be heartbreaking, is very strong. Like Malia, I wouldn’t dare to expect a couple struggling with infertility expose themselves in this way. But if a person felt called to share their struggles with others, it would probably have a big spiritual effect.

Bravo! I couldn’t agree more. As painful as they are, our Lord can still use miscarriages and fertility problems to further the Truth. These are testimonies that so much need to be heard by our modern society, and so few are sharing them.

I have gotten so many shocked responses when telling people that even though I have a severely disabled daughter and a high-energy son, I am happily awaiting the day we are able to grow our family. The world would have us sterilized, but we want them to know our God is a God of life!