Scans uncover secrets of the womb

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Scans uncover secrets of the womb

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40322000/jpg/_40322435_walking203.jpg Baby ‘walking’ in the womb

**A new type of ultrasound scan has produced vivid pictures of a 12 week-old foetus “walking” in the womb. **

The new images also show foetuses apparently yawning and rubbing its eyes.

The scans, pioneered by Professor Stuart Campbell at London’s Create Health Clinic, are much more detailed than conventional ultrasound.

Professor Campbell has previously released images of unborn babies appearing to smile.

He has compiled a book of the images called Watch Me Grow.

Conventional ultrasound, usually offered to mothers at 12 and 20 weeks, produces 2D images of the developing foetus.

These are very useful for helping doctors to measure and assess the growth of the foetus, but convey very little information about behaviour.

Complex behaviour

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img.../images/40322000/jpg/_40322433_yawning203.jpg
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

More pictures of developing foetuses

Professor Campbell has perfected a technique which not only produces detailed 3D images, but records foetal movement in real time.

He says his work has been able to show for the first time that the unborn baby engages in complex behaviour from an early stage of its development.

Professor Campbell told the BBC: "This is a new science for understanding and mapping out the behaviour of the baby.

“Maybe in the future it will help us understand and diagnose genetic disease, maybe even conditions like cerebral palsy which puzzles the medical profession as to why it occurs.”

The images have shown:
  • From 12 weeks, unborn babies can stretch, kick and leap around the womb - well before the mother can feel movement
  • From 18 weeks, they can open their eyes although most doctors thought eyelids were fused until 26 weeks
  • From 26 weeks, they appear to exhibit a whole range of typical baby behaviour and moods, including scratching, smiling, crying, hiccuping, and sucking. Until recently it was thought that smiling did not start until six weeks after birth.
An hour long session using the new technology, which is not yet available on the NHS, costs £275. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3846525.stm
 
It would take a loooooooooong e-mail to document all of the Protestant denominations that support abortion, or at least permit it. Examples: the Episcopalians caved in on this issue long ago, some Lutheran groups provide this “service” for their employees through their insurance programs, various Presbyterian splinters allow it. Bernard Nathanson, M.D., provided such a list as an appendix to his book, Aborting America. (He was the nation’s #1 abortion provider and says he personally presided over the death’s of 75,000 unborn babies. He is now a pro-life Catholic.)

Do you know a Protestant denomination that allows abortion? Which one(s)?

If you are a Protestant (or non-Catholic), what is your own denomination’s policy regarding abortion?

Do you think abortion violates the Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Kill? If you don’t, please read the first post again.

Peace to all who post at Catholic Answers, Jay
 
Katholikos said:
Do you think abortion violates the Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Kill? If you don’t, please read the first post again.

Peace to all who post at Catholic Answers, Jay
Click to expand...

I’ve tried - unsuccessfully - to get an answer to this question from Protestant pro-aborts and even Catholic progressives, but they all duck the issue. Most don’t even try to reply. Those that do are disingenuous (“just a blob of tissue”). If shown that photo they would a) deny that it was a 12 wk-old fetus; or b) turn away.

Anything that doesn’t match their world view is discarded.
 
Sadly, I know one Catholic mother who swears that if her teenage daughter became pregnant she would allow an abortion. It breaks my heart. She would turn away from these pics.

Everybody has a reason for supporting abortion, but how do you break through that “mama bear” mentality?
 
Little Mary:
Sadly, I know one Catholic mother who swears that if her teenage daughter became pregnant she would allow an abortion. It breaks my heart. She would turn away from these pics.

Everybody has a reason for supporting abortion, but how do you break through that “mama bear” mentality?
Click to expand...
All I can say is where was the ‘mam bear’ mentality when her daughter would be having sex? The Catholic mother who told you she would back the abortion if it came to that is playing with a double edged sword…face having an abortion, or face having to admit your daughter slept around.

Seems to me common sense flew out the window when the progressives marched into the Church. I have even heard parents say that the urges are normal (which they are) and they are gonna do it anyway (which they can curb if they chose to)…

it’s like tossing out your morality than trying to work with it. As big as abortion is, it is a secondary effect to the looseness we as parents have taught our children in regards to their own sexuality.

I would imagine some parents just don’t have a backbone for that kind of thing.

Story
 
this might be departing from the direction of this thread, but does anyone know how much these machines cost in American currency?
 
Yes, I agree with the Church that abortion violates the commandment against murder.

The argument as I see it boils down to what a fetus is. First, ask yourself, if you took a tissue sample of a fetus to a crime lab for analysis, what type of tissue would the lab say it is?

Now, some would say this only establishes that it is a member of the species Homo Sapiens. I have actually had people try to convince me from here that it is either a part of the mother herself, or it does not become a “human” homo sapiens until it is born. Both these arguments collapse of their own weight, which is probably why pro-choice people don’t like to argue the point.

Genetically, the fetus is not identical to the mother. If you took a tissue sample of the mother to the crime lab at the same time as the fetus, they would tell you that there are samples of two different people involved. They would also probably be able to state that these are the tissue samples of a mother and offspring.

Trying to define humanity by birth lacks the objectivity most pro-choice people desire. What is it about the birth experience that they think turns on our humanity? There is nothing unique about being born that makes us more human than we were before birth. And trying to create a definition of humanity that allows some members of our species to be human while saying that other members of our species are not human has a ton of human rights implications, none of them good!
 
WOW!! These pictures are phenomenal!! I am speechless.

Peace,
Linda
 
40.png
Charles:
Now, some would say this only establishes that it is a member of the species Homo Sapiens. I have actually had people try to convince me from here that it is either a part of the mother herself, or it does not become a “human” homo sapiens until it is born. Both these arguments collapse of their own weight, which is probably why pro-choice people don’t like to argue the point.
…
Trying to define humanity by birth lacks the objectivity most pro-choice people desire. What is it about the birth experience that they think turns on our humanity? There is nothing unique about being born that makes us more human than we were before birth. And trying to create a definition of humanity that allows some members of our species to be human while saying that other members of our species are not human has a ton of human rights implications, none of them good!
Click to expand...
I have seen pro-abortion people happily put forth absurd arguments to justify their stance. Some have called a fetus a parasite, and said that it doesn’t gain legal rights as a human until it can be removed from the womb and survive for more than half an hour without the aid of a machine. I even know one individual who states that since science can’t agree when personhood begins, the rights default to the mother who is definitely a person, so she can therefore decide the fate of the child. He cited a website that listed seven different proposed definitions for the beginning of human life. The definitions ranged from the existance of sperm and eggs all the way through birth, with developments like fertilization and the development of a central nervous system in between. Suprisingly enough, this latter individual is also a practicing homosexual that belongs to a liberal Christian denomination.

So, there are pro-abortion people that will argue these points whole-heartedly. Several months ago I participated in a huge (maybe 35 pages long?) debate on a student forum at my school, and it’s hard to keep a spirit of charity when nobody else thinks about it 😦

Peace
 
Any human being, whether man, woman or pregnant woman, who fixes their eyes upon those images and STILL goes thru with performing an abortion, going thru with an abortion or voting for ANYONE who is pro abortion is guilty of pre natal manslaughter…my ears are closed to…" I just didnt know"…sorry…did ya see those photos and THEN participate in abortion?.. if yes, then you are a murderer.
 
You know, these scans are quite amazing. However, there’s something that I heard that made me think they are not, possibly, such a good idea. First of all, some of these 3D images are being offered as ‘fun’ type sessions by places with cute names (not medical facilities), where the technicians are not necessarily trained for encountering problems. The fact that the baby can be viewed, in such detail, may be frightening for some parents if something is so easily ‘viewed’. If there is a problem, a birth defect, etc., the parents may be horrified because they will be able to see it themselves, rather clearly. I fear that this may cause people, who are pro-choice, to ending pregnancies (abortion) more often, because of the level of clarity these ‘pictures’ reveal. Perhaps this is misinformation, but it made me think. Does any one have any thoughts on this? Could it be a disadvantage?
 
There was a news story on a few months ago about “studios” using these machines to give parents a prenatal “photo album.” The parents loved it, the studios did too, of course, as they were making money. Guess who spoke out against them? A Planned Parenthood representative. They tried to argue that the technicians weren’t properly trained, and the “effects” of these scans on the child and mother weren’t known, and may not be safe. However, as only abortion industry people were opposed to this (at least on this newscast), it was obvious to me that they’re problem is that anyone who sees this kind of image cannot deny the humanity of the unborn, and would have to be barbaric to have an abortion (the 2d ultrasound image was enough to sway me). The abortion industry is terrified that crisis pregnancy centers will get a hold of these machines, and then their business will go completely down the toliet (people praying in front of their clinics hurts them enough!). I say bring it on! Every diocese should donate one of these to each crisis pregnancy center in the diocese.

Ellen
 
One of my concerns is that these non-medical facilities will not
be prepared, necessarily, to deal with those parents who may be upset with what they see. If there is a gross abnormality, will these ‘happy’ facilities be able to explain, educate, and assist those who may walk out with the thought of ending the pregnancy. Real technicians, radiologists, in other words, may be able to verify the extent or reality of such a problem that otherwise, is not correctly understood by the untrained.
And considering that these ‘happy facilities’ do not have pro-life mentalities any more than the professional/medical facilities do, perhaps it may be very scary for those parents who do NOT have the picture perfect baby album they were expecting.

It’s not that I’m against 3D ultrasounds. I think they’re very cool! I think, for the most part, they would ‘deter’ people from abortions. However, for the minority of people who encounter a visualized problem, defect etc… it may be a very scary situation without proper psychological, medical, spritual counseling at these facilities where ‘happy endings’ are promoted.

Perhaps, the good outweighs the bad by far. I just think it would be very frightening for those who don’t have a ‘happy photo shoot’!

By the way, I’m extremely pro-life, so don’t get me wrong. I wouldn’t end a pregnancy no matter what I saw. But, regardless, it would still be very scary. I think I’d rather wait for medical facilities and the insurance companies to make 3D available as the norm before I would go to the alternative type of facility.
 
Little Mary:
Sadly, I know one Catholic mother who swears that if her teenage daughter became pregnant she would allow an abortion. It breaks my heart. She would turn away from these pics.

Everybody has a reason for supporting abortion, but how do you break through that “mama bear” mentality?
Click to expand...
You find a time when you can educate the daughter, and you keep praying.
We are afraid of stepping on toes, but chances are, if you had a minor-age daughter, that woman wouldn’t hesitate to drive her to Planned Parenthood behind your back.
Some parents force their daughters to undergo abortions.
I wonder if this woman has ever expressed her intent to her daughter? (That might be a good inducement to remain chaste!)
 
40.png
Katholikos:
QUOTE

Scans uncover secrets of the womb

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40322000/jpg/_40322435_walking203.jpg Baby ‘walking’ in the womb

**A new type of ultrasound scan has produced vivid pictures of a 12 week-old foetus “walking” in the womb. **

The new images also show foetuses apparently yawning and rubbing its eyes.

The scans, pioneered by Professor Stuart Campbell at London’s Create Health Clinic, are much more detailed than conventional ultrasound.

Professor Campbell has previously released images of unborn babies appearing to smile.

He has compiled a book of the images called Watch Me Grow.

Conventional ultrasound, usually offered to mothers at 12 and 20 weeks, produces 2D images of the developing foetus.

These are very useful for helping doctors to measure and assess the growth of the foetus, but convey very little information about behaviour.

Complex behaviour

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img.../images/40322000/jpg/_40322433_yawning203.jpg
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

More pictures of developing foetuses

Professor Campbell has perfected a technique which not only produces detailed 3D images, but records foetal movement in real time.

He says his work has been able to show for the first time that the unborn baby engages in complex behaviour from an early stage of its development.

Professor Campbell told the BBC: "This is a new science for understanding and mapping out the behaviour of the baby.

“Maybe in the future it will help us understand and diagnose genetic disease, maybe even conditions like cerebral palsy which puzzles the medical profession as to why it occurs.”

The images have shown:
  • From 12 weeks, unborn babies can stretch, kick and leap around the womb - well before the mother can feel movement
  • From 18 weeks, they can open their eyes although most doctors thought eyelids were fused until 26 weeks
  • From 26 weeks, they appear to exhibit a whole range of typical baby behaviour and moods, including scratching, smiling, crying, hiccuping, and sucking. Until recently it was thought that smiling did not start until six weeks after birth.
An hour long session using the new technology, which is not yet available on the NHS, costs £275. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3846525.stm
Click to expand...
Just thought i’d mention that the former Liberal Party leader in the
UK.Parliament,David Steele,now in the House of Lords,has proposed restricting abortions to 12 weeks.Quite amazing,since he was the man who started off abortion in the UK in 1967.
 
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