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Nowhere_Man
Guest
In the Eastern Catholic Churches has there been schisms like there has in the Roman Catholic Church, such as the Old Catholics, Sedevacantists, and Anglicans?
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Phillip_Rolfes
Guest
Not to my knowledge. It seems that what tends to happen, at least among the Byzantines, is people just become Orthodox.
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mardukm
Guest
In the Ukranian Catholic Church, and in the Syro-Malankara Church (or perhaps it is the Syro-Malabar Church), there are groups that are quite vocal about the maintenance of Latinizations. The group from the UGCC has been placed on interdict, IIRC. I’m not sure of the status of the group in the Indian Church.
Blessings
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Aramis
Guest
There are several such groups.
Most visible but still close are the ACROD; in order to keep their married clerics, they left the Ruthenian Catholic Church and became Orthodox is a rather unpleasant schism in the early 20th C. Their bishop, however, has been reforming and delatinizing them, too.
Most recently, the Society of St Josephat Kuntsevitch (SSJK), who were excommunicated for disobedience by Patriarch Lubomyr of the UGCC… they insist of keeping the highly latinized liturgy, and are affiliated with the SSPX.
There are several Vagante groups, including as exemplar the Byzantine Catholic Church, Inc., which seems to be a couple former Ruthenians who got a vagante bishop to ordain them bishops. Several parishes, looks very much Ruthenian recension from the website. Some other Vagantes are a single parish, with a defrocked priest who moved and set up a new Church with himself as head.
Plus the “Independent Orthodox Church” groups… who are just another flavor of Orthodox.
Plus at least one Old Catholic jurisdiction has a byzantine rite parish.
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Mickey
Guest
ACROD returned to Her Orthodox roots and upheld the Eastern tradition of allowing married men to enter the priesthood.
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Aramis
Guest
No smiley is appropriate… That smilely is just about the most offensive part of your pro-Orthodoxy posts. This is a Catholic site, and you are claiming schism is good when it results in joining orthodoxy; it was a mortal sin for them all by canon law, and for the priests, one reserved to the apostolic see of St. Peter for absolution.ACROD returned to Her Orthodox roots and upheld the Eastern tradition of allowing married men to enter the priesthood.
Further, it was one of the darkest periods in the history of the Ruthenian church; it still divides families.
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ciero
Guest
Get REAL ALREADY!!Hes right, ACROD returned to her mother church, when her rights within the Catholic communion were no longer respected case closed. Maybe we should look at it from the other side for a change,that the Ruthenian catholics were in schism for not standing up with their brothers.
What about the schism that occurred with the Union of Uzerhod?
Try looking at things from other peoples perspective.
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dvdjs
Guest
Only if we want to indulge in utter nonsense. It was crystal clear who, at that time, changed affiliations and left for a newly created particular jurisdiction in the US, much to the chagrin also of established Orthodox jurisdictions like the Russian Metropolia. It might be sillier to talk of the Anglicans who are setting up Western Rite Orthodox parishes as people “returning to their Mother Church”, but not by much.And as for your “case closed” - suffice it to say that your simple account doesn’t begin to scratch the surface of what was involved.
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Only when they are within the bounds of reason.
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mardukm
Guest
Sorry for sticking my nose in a Byzantine issue:
While Abp Ireland certainly sinned against the Ruthenians, it was not right to break unity based on a matter of discipline. Have we learned no lesson from the incident between Pope St. Victor and the Eastern controversy?
Blessings
While Abp Ireland certainly sinned against the Ruthenians, it was not right to break unity based on a matter of discipline. Have we learned no lesson from the incident between Pope St. Victor and the Eastern controversy?
Blessings
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WetCatechumen
Guest
My question is, would it be okay for the Ruthenians to have formally retained unity while ordaining married men regardless of what the Latin bishops of the land said?
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Aramis
Guest
That’s what the Ukrainians did.
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ciero
Guest
The Ukranians did no such thing. They layed down rolled over and allowed their church to be Latinized. I am in no way advocating schism here, but what are you supposed to do? Rome went back on their word(and not only on the married priest issue). The married priest issue was the straw that broke the camels back.
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ciero
Guest
They did for a while…until Rome sided with the Latin bishops and forbade anymore ordinations of married men. I knew 2 of the men who were to be ordained when the letter came from Rome forbidding the ordination, decided to stick with Rome and were still very bitter all these years later.
At least they were until they died a few years back.
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Mickey
Guest
I’m sorry you feel that way. It was not meant to be offensive. The Ruthenians should allow married men to the priesthood–that is why I posted the winking emoticon.
I said no such thing.
We see it as a return to their patrimony.
Yes. That is the sad part.
I agree that each of the 22 churches should return to each their own unique spiritual patrimony. I feel alot of catholics that get fed up with one church and leave would probably still be among us if they had better access to different suri irius catholic churchs. I myself had gone to a variety of Roman catholic churches and gotten discouraged from joining just watching and participating in that church didn’t fit me. So imagine my surprise when I when to the Maronite catholic church and it worked best for me. We’re still under Rome but instead of the message being all legalistic (which isn’t wrong btw, just strict in defining everything legally ie Canons this canons that) the Divine Liturgy was based more on God’s mercy and the Eucharist is taken as a mystery no need to define this and that. That approach works for me. I admit that doesn’t work for everybody though. So to each there own. I was saddened when I realize the Maronites which ordain married men as priests abroad won’t do that in the USA. I’m not a fan of the latinizations. I hope my Patriarch can reverse more of it in the years to come. oh and we’ve never gone into schism from Rome.
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UnworthyApostle
Guest
Unfortunately, we are in a lesser state than God. Because of sin, we are always in the midst of a divisive argument. The roman heirarchy has and will fail the church at times, and so has the eastern heirarchy. We need to all repent. The eastern churches must be able to return to their patrimony, that is what true unity is. We are the Universal Church, not the Latin Universal Church. I pray that the current Holy Father continues what the Blessed John Paul II started. The church has an eastern face Benedict said, and the centuries of eastern traditon repression needs to be reversed. Let us all be truly One, and Catholic. for we are many parts of One Body.
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