Scholasticism

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filius_Immacula

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I am very interested in eastern catholicism, but i am greatly attached to thomism and scholastic understanding, and ive often heard eastern catholicism being described as more “spiritual” than analytical, would i have to abandon thomism and analytical views of the sacraments such as transubstantiation in order to bcome eastern caholic?👍
 
I am not a Roman Catholic and know little about Eastern Catholicism. My own view however, is that Eastern Catholicism is more monastic than scholastic.

Scholastic theology never really sat well with me in spit of my attempts to “do” it. I stumbled upon monastic theology through a retreat at a monastery and it was like a breath of fresh air and I felt like I was finally home. It literally changed my life.

Two links for you…

msaviour.org/2010/mon_sch.htm

w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20091028.html

-Tim-
 
I am very interested in eastern catholicism, but i am greatly attached to thomism and scholastic understanding, and ive often heard eastern catholicism being described as more “spiritual” than analytical, would i have to abandon thomism and analytical views of the sacraments such as transubstantiation in order to bcome eastern caholic?👍
You are always welcome to attend an Eastern Catholic parish. However, if you plan on officially/canonically becoming Eastern Catholic, you really ought to fully embrace the theological, spiritual, liturgical canonical, and historical traditions of whatever Eastern Catholic Church you become a part of. We Eastern Catholics aren’t just “Roman Catholics who celebrate Mass funny.”

That being said, it doesn’t mean that you have to stop reading St. Thomas Aquinas, or any of the other scholastics for that matter. The scholastic theologians have genuine insight. Just bear in mind, however, that as an Eastern Catholic the scholastic theologians would not be your primary source for theological and spiritual formation. They would more be ancillary reading/study that may help deepen your insight into the perspectives of Eastern Christianity.
 
I am very interested in eastern catholicism, but i am greatly attached to thomism and scholastic understanding, and ive often heard eastern catholicism being described as more “spiritual” than analytical, would i have to abandon thomism and analytical views of the sacraments such as transubstantiation in order to bcome eastern caholic?👍
The Eastern Catholic Churches believe and teach everything that the Latin Rite teaches and what the Pope teaches. You would not have to give up Thomas or Scholasticism. I’m sure that not much philosophy of any kind reaches down to the pews there any more that they do in the pews of Latin Rite Churches.

Of course if you were to enter an Eastern Catholic seminary, I’m sure that there would not be a heavy emphasis on Aquinas. But I could be wrong. I’m sure someone will tell us about that.

Linus2nd
 
Well, first of all, a disclaimer: I know a lot about Eastern Orthodox theology, not Eastern Catholic. So, I’ll give you a rundown on the Orthodox stuff. I’d appreciate if any ECs here could run over it and tell me what’s accurate for them and what’s not.

Essentially, the core concept to understand is that there’s a profound difference between Western theology (Meaning both the Protestant and Catholic theology - they’re viewed as one and the same in the East because the Protestant theology developed out of Catholic theology, as much as Protestants might not like to admit it). Eastern theology developed seperately, and in a whole different world. Western theology comes mostly from St. Aquinas, St. Anselm (both of whom are post-schism saints) and St. Augustine (who was never really popular in the East). The really big difference is St. Anselm, and his concepts of justification and satisfaction. This leads to a more legalistic approach to sin, where mankind lives in a constant “debt” to God because of his sins and must repent for them in order to satisfy God and avoid his wrath, and the dread judgment before God is something of a legalistic affair as well, with God judging his good deeds and bad deeds and either granting him entry into heaven and eternal paradise, or hell and eternal torment. (which is not really an accurate description at all, but that’s how it’s viewed in the East). Easterners never had such a concept. They believe in a concept called theosis, “deification”, which was mainly defined by Gregory Palamas, although it goes as far back as St. Athanasius (some even claim references to it in the NT epistles, but I don’t know enough there to comment on that claim). Essentially, in theosis, God is divided into two properties - his “essence”, which is the unknowable “substance” of God, and his “energies” which are the physical manifestations of God. These energies are often symbolized by a fire, and It is believed that man can partake in these “energies” of God, while still remaining man and not sharing with the “substance” of God. Just as the burning bush was overcome by the fire of God’s presence and yet was not consumed by it, still remaining a bush. Or, another great example commonly used by the Church Fathers is that of a nail, which when put into a forge obtains the properties of the fire, becoming red-hot, while still remaining in substance a nail. The Orthodox believe that the “light” of God is actually this fiery “energy” - the light that illumined Jesus during the Transfiguration, for instance. According to Theosis, man should attempt to become as much like God as he possibly can, and when he does so, he becomes a partaker in these energies of God. When you hear Easterners take about Saints with illumined faces, this is what they’re talking about. And when a man dies, he passes into God’s fiery energies, and becomes glorified like him by these energies. Those who die having gone against God, however, will still pass into the fire, but because he rejected God this presence of God will become as a fire eternally tormenting him. This is the Orthodox Hell. As St. Athanasius put it - God became Man so that Man might become God.

That’s a very simplistic explanation of it - obviously it’s impossible to sum up an entire theological system in one paragraph. But that’s the gist of the main difference between Orthodox and Western theology. Besides that, the two are mostly identical.

If you’re looking to explore it further, I’d recommend the book “The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church”, by Vladimir Lossky. It’s an Orthodox, not EC book so take it with a grain of salt. But it explains the system quite well.

Again - this is all Orthodox theology - I don’t know where EC theology differs from it.
 
Well, first of all, a disclaimer: I know a lot about Eastern Orthodox theology, not Eastern Catholic. So, I’ll give you a rundown on the Orthodox stuff. I’d appreciate if any ECs here could run over it and tell me what’s accurate for them and what’s not.

Essentially, the core concept to understand is that there’s a profound difference between Western theology (Meaning both the Protestant and Catholic theology - they’re viewed as one and the same in the East because the Protestant theology developed out of Catholic theology, as much as Protestants might not like to admit it). Eastern theology developed seperately, and in a whole different world. Western theology comes mostly from St. Aquinas, St. Anselm (both of whom are post-schism saints) and St. Augustine (who was never really popular in the East). The really big difference is St. Anselm, and his concepts of justification and satisfaction. This leads to a more legalistic approach to sin, where mankind lives in a constant “debt” to God because of his sins and must repent for them in order to satisfy God and avoid his wrath, and the dread judgment before God is something of a legalistic affair as well, with God judging his good deeds and bad deeds and either granting him entry into heaven and eternal paradise, or hell and eternal torment. (which is not really an accurate description at all, but that’s how it’s viewed in the East). Easterners never had such a concept. They believe in a concept called theosis, “deification”, which was mainly defined by Gregory Palamas, although it goes as far back as St. Athanasius (some even claim references to it in the NT epistles, but I don’t know enough there to comment on that claim). Essentially, in theosis, God is divided into two properties - his “essence”, which is the unknowable “substance” of God, and his “energies” which are the physical manifestations of God. These energies are often symbolized by a fire, and It is believed that man can partake in these “energies” of God, while still remaining man and not sharing with the “substance” of God. Just as the burning bush was overcome by the fire of God’s presence and yet was not consumed by it, still remaining a bush. Or, another great example commonly used by the Church Fathers is that of a nail, which when put into a forge obtains the properties of the fire, becoming red-hot, while still remaining in substance a nail. The Orthodox believe that the “light” of God is actually this fiery “energy” - the light that illumined Jesus during the Transfiguration, for instance. According to Theosis, man should attempt to become as much like God as he possibly can, and when he does so, he becomes a partaker in these energies of God. When you hear Easterners take about Saints with illumined faces, this is what they’re talking about. And when a man dies, he passes into God’s fiery energies, and becomes glorified like him by these energies. Those who die having gone against God, however, will still pass into the fire, but because he rejected God this presence of God will become as a fire eternally tormenting him. This is the Orthodox Hell. As St. Athanasius put it - God became Man so that Man might become God.

That’s a very simplistic explanation of it - obviously it’s impossible to sum up an entire theological system in one paragraph. But that’s the gist of the main difference between Orthodox and Western theology. Besides that, the two are mostly identical.

If you’re looking to explore it further, I’d recommend the book “The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church”, by Vladimir Lossky. It’s an Orthodox, not EC book so take it with a grain of salt. But it explains the system quite well.

Again - this is all Orthodox theology - I don’t know where EC theology differs from it.
One problem with the Orthodox lumping Roman Catholic and Protestant theology together as “Western” is that there’s more of a difference between Roman Catholic and Protestant theology than there is between Roman Catholic and Orthodox theology. Romans don’t exclusively draw from Augustine, Anslem and Aquinas. Roman Catholic theology is much more diverse than that and embraces the Greek Fathers in addition to other great Roman theologians. Irenaeus of Lyons has about as much influence on Roman thinking as does Augustine. John Chrysostom, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory Nazianzus, Ephrem the Syrian, Athanasius, etc. are all honored as “Doctors of the Church” among Roman Catholics. This drawing from the same sources as Greek/Byzantine theologians means we have much more in common than we do differences. Aquinas, Bonaventure and the other scholastics were simply attempting to synthesize the teachings of the early Fathers and reconcile their thought with Greek philosophy (something that the Byzantine East had already been doing in a less systematic way).
 
Well, first of all, a disclaimer: I know a lot about Eastern Orthodox theology, not Eastern Catholic. So, I’ll give you a rundown on the Orthodox stuff. I’d appreciate if any ECs here could run over it and tell me what’s accurate for them and what’s not.

Essentially, the core concept to understand is thabt there’s a profound difference between Western theology (Meaning both the Protestant and Catholic theology - they’re viewed as one and the same in the East because the Protestant theology developed out of Catholic theology, as much as Protestants might not like to admit it). Eastern theology developed seperately, and in a whole different world. Western theology comes mostly from St. Aquinas, St. Anselm (both of whom are post-schism saints) and St. Augustine (who was never really popular in the East). The really big difference is St. Anselm, and his concepts of justification and satisfaction. This leads to a more legalistic approach to sin, where mankind lives in a constant “debt” to God because of his sins and must repent for them in order to satisfy God and avoid his wrath, and the dread judgment before God is something of a legalistic affair as well, with God judging his good deeds and bad deeds and either granting him entry into heaven and eternal paradise, or hell and eternal torment. (which is not really an accurate description at all, but that’s how it’s viewed in the East). Easterners never had such a concept. They believe in a concept called theosis, “deification”, which was mainly defined by Gregory Palamas, although it goes as far back as St. Athanasius (some even claim references to it in the NT epistles, but I don’t know enough there to comment on that claim). Essentially, in theosis, God is divided into two properties - his “essence”, which is the unknowable “substance” of God, and his “energies” which are the physical manifestations of God. These energies are often symbolized by a fire, and It is believed that man can partake in these “energies” of God, while still remaining man and not sharing with the “substance” of God. Just as the burning bush was overcome by the fire of God’s presence and yet was not consumed by it, still remaining a bush. Or, another great example commonly used by the Church Fathers is that of a nail, which when put into a forge obtains the properties of the fire, becoming red-hot, while still remaining in substance a nail. The Orthodox believe that the “light” of God is actually this fiery “energy” - the light that illumined Jesus during the Transfiguration, for instance. According to Theosis, man should attempt to become as much like God as he possibly can, and when he does so, he becomes a partaker in these energies of God. When you hear Easterners take about Saints with illumined faces, this is what they’re talking about. And when a man dies, he passes into God’s fiery energies, and becomes glorified like him by these energies. Those who die having gone against God, however, will still pass into the fire, but because he rejected God this presence of God will become as a fire eternally tormenting him. This is the Orthodox Hell. As St. Athanasius put it - God became Man so that Man might become God.

That’s a very simplistic explanation of it - obviously it’s impossible to sum up an entire theological system in one paragraph. But that’s the gist of the main difference between Orthodox and Western theology. Besides that, the two are mostly identical.

If you’re looking to explore it further, I’d recommend the book “The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church”, by Vladimir Lossky. It’s an Orthodox, not EC book so take it with a grain of salt. But it explains the system quite well.

Again - this is all Orthodox theology - I don’t know where EC theology differs from it.
Yeah im a wird on fire fan and a cs lewis fan, and theu articulated that view as well,
 
  1. I don’t see an actual idea that the East has that differs from the West
  2. What idea from Greek philosophy is used mainly by the West as opposed to the West? Potency? Who in the world doesn’t know about potency since they were 3? The only idea I can think of that is an actual distinct thought would be Plato’s ideas
  3. ecumenical documents say the eastern Catholic and western views of the Trinity are complementary. This doesn’t make sense to me. They both say the Father and Son spirate the Spirit. Is the East saying “by the Son” and the West “with the Son”? If those are distinct ideas, they are not complementary but opposed. If they are the same they are not complementary either
 
  1. I don’t see an actual idea that the East has that differs from the West
  2. What idea from Greek philosophy is used mainly by the West as opposed to the West? Potency? Who in the world doesn’t know about potency since they were 3? The only idea I can think of that is an actual distinct thought would be Plato’s ideas
  3. ecumenical documents say the eastern Catholic and western views of the Trinity are complementary. This doesn’t make sense to me. They both say the Father and Son spirate the Spirit. Is the East saying “by the Son” and the West “with the Son”? If those are distinct ideas, they are not complementary but opposed. If they are the same they are not complementary either
compliment: that which completes or brings to perfection

Catechism of the Catholic Church
248 At the outset the Eastern tradition expresses the Father’s character as first origin of the Spirit. By confessing the Spirit as he “who proceeds from the Father”, it affirms that he comes from the Father *through *the Son.77 The Western tradition expresses first the consubstantial communion between Father and Son, by saying that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque). It says this, “legitimately and with good reason”,78 for the eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as “the principle without principle”,79 is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Holy Spirit proceeds.80 This legitimate complementarity, provided it does not become rigid, does not affect the identity of faith in the reality of the same mystery confessed.
 
“The Maronites living in the countryside near Antioch resisted extensive Greek influence and retained the Syriac culture and language of Edessa. Thus the theology, spirituality and liturgy developed according to biblical themes rather than philosophical thought.”

stmaron.org/spirituality.html

I like this explanation under an approach to prayer:

“The early Syriac writers drew upon the semitic biblical idea of HEART as the center of spiritual life. The Greek writers relied upon a more philosophical idea of HEART as the center of intellectual life.”

I am a cradle Roman Catholic who didn’t grow up in the Catholic church, together with my former Protestant husband we have studied the Bible with different denominations, on our own and fortunately with an Eastern Orthodox monk. While my husband embraced EO, I wanted to revert to RC, our compromise was EC. What was available where we live is the Maronites. I agree with Errham, easterns do not refer to Augustine as St. Augustine.
 
I agree with Errham, easterns do not refer to Augustine as St. Augustine.
His feast day in the Orthodox Church is celebrated on June 15.

For a brief explanation of his place in Orthodoxy and the history of the controversy: goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8153.

For a more thorough treatment, you can read Fr. Seraphim Rose’s excellent book amazon.com/Blessed-Augustine-Orthodox-Church-Theological/dp/0938635123
When Fr. Seraphim found out that the early Western Father, Blessed Augustine of Hippo, was being attacked in contemporary Eastern Orthodox circles, then he–himself a Western convert to Orthodoxy–rose in his defense. This book is the outcome. Fr. Seraphim said he wrote it in the hope that it would help remove Augustine as a scapegoat for today’s academic theologians, and thus “help free us all to see his and our own weaknesses in a little closer light–for his weaknesses, to a surprising degree, are indeed close to our own.” After discussing Blessed Augustine’s strengths and weaknesses, Fr. Seraphim examines the opinions of other Holy Fathers concerning him. “His main benefit to us today,” he writes, “is probably precisely as a Father of Orthodox pietysomething with which he was filled to overflowing. Here he is one with the simple Orthodox faithful, as well as with all the Holy Fathers of East and West who, whatever their various failings and differences in theoretical points of doctrine, had a single deeply Christian heart and soul. It is this that makes him unquestionably an Orthodox Father.”
This new edition of The Place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church contains letters written by Fr. Seraphim concerning Augustine, passages from Augustine’s Confessions which Fr. Seraphim found especially moving, and an Orthodox service to Blessed Augustine, commissioned by St. John Maximovitch.
 
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