School Prayer

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SeanF1989

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Should public schools have mandatory prayer (as was the case in the USA prior 1963)
 
No.

You cannot, and should not, force someone to pray.

You cannot, and should not, force someone to pray a certain prayer.

I went to public school when prayers were still said. I asked my mama what I should do, when a strange “grace” was said before our snack time. She told me to just say our own Catholic grace in my head after I said the “Christian” grace.

But, that being said, no one ever stopped me from praying in public schools, even after the ban on open prayers, because I always prayed in my head during the day.
 
If we had school led prayer, who’s prayer will it be? If it is like it was in the US before it will be Protestant prayer. Kids are free to pray in school, it is not dictated HOW they pray. Encourage your Catholic kids to pray in school, to pray the Rosary on a break, to make the SOTC before they eat.
 
SeanF1989 said:
Should public schools have mandatory prayer (as was the case in the USA prior 1963)
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No. Anyone can pray at anytime privately and silently. No one should be FORCED to pray at any time in a public area.

The question, of course, is which religion’s prayer would be prayed publicly if public prayer were forced. Baptist? Seventh Day Advent? Hindu? Muslim? Wiccan?

So best to have no forced public prayer as anyone can always pray privately.

Private prayers are more meaningful anyway, IMO.
 
Catholic90, I generally agree with most all of what you write, but when you write that “private prayers are more meaningful,” I’m not sure I agree. Let me explain (assuming we are speaking about the U.S.)

I’ve always liked public prayers in some form for 3 reasons. First, those prayers are generally of a Christian flavor, and it reinforces the notion that the USA is by and large a Christian nation. Second, these prayers serve as a reminder that God should be involved in our lives, and, well, reminder of God, period. Third, prayers are just that, prayers, to God.

An example – I have heard some very moving prayers, expressly referencing “Jesus Christ,” said over the loudspeakers at rodeos before the show begins. Whether the folks participating are Bible Christians, Baptists, Catholics, etc., is IMHO irrelevant. The prayers are still great, and they allow us some common ground wherein we can all join in asking for “whatever,” i.e., that the cowboys at the rodeo not get hurt, or whatever.

So although I am not in favor of forced prayer, I rather like public prayer.
 
Prayer should not be mandated in public school, no matter the reason. It is not something that should be forced on anyone, ever.
 
I personally think some prayer should be said to thank “Our Creator” for the gift of life and the unalienable rights that go along with that. I mean its only the corner stone of our Constitution and way of life as we know it…

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…”

That said we don’t need to force anybody too, but I think we should make the opportunity available.
 
Probably not mandatory, but the present degree of forced nonprayer is simply insane. There is no reason, for instance, that Catholic students should not be allowed together (with Catholic teachers) to pray, for instance as an extracurricular group. Nor is there any reason why 5 minutes should not be set aside for students to say prayers.

Atheist, agnostic, or otherwise non-praying students can spend that time reading, doodling, doing class exercises, etc.
 
No, school prayer is always protestant. If the person doing the praying started saying a Hail Mary there would be a lynching.
 
Catholic90 said:
No. Anyone can pray at anytime privately and silently. No one should be FORCED to pray at any time in a public area.

The question, of course, is which religion’s prayer would be prayed publicly if public prayer were forced. Baptist? Seventh Day Advent? Hindu? Muslim? Wiccan?

So best to have no forced public prayer as anyone can always pray privately.

Private prayers are more meaningful anyway, IMO.
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I agree. I am not a fan of mandated prayer in schools.
 
SeanF1989 said:
Should public schools have mandatory prayer (as was the case in the USA prior 1963)
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Public high school teacher here.

Whenever the topic of mandatory prayer in public school comes up, my mind always heads towards the practicalities. For example:
  • Most students can pray remaining seated and don’t need to undergo any physical preparation first. But what about Jamal and Malik, who need to wash first? They’re going to lose 5-10 minutes of additional class time doing their abultions in the restroom. Should I hold up class waiting for them, should prayer time eat up 15-20 minutes of our 54-minute English class every day? Or, should I just teach around the two kids on the floor and hope the rest of the class doesn’t pay them any mind?
*What about my students who burn joss sticks as a part of their prayer rituals? Am I now going to have to keep a lighter on me, because students certainly aren’t going to be allowed to cary implements of fire production on campus? And what about their classmates with asthma (a major health problem in my poor air quality city)? All of that incense smoke is for sure going to trigger asthma attacks, so who’s going to go outside during prayer time, the joss stick burners or the asthmatics?

*There are kids who wouldn’t pray even if an angel of the Lord appeared in front of their desk and commanded them to. Worse, they’re going to snigger at and mock the devout and do their upmost to disrupt prayer time. What am I going to do about these little darlings? Send them to the office? Call their parents? Send them to Saturday school for disrupting prayer time? Our local paper would have a field day with that.

*I am proudly Catholic and the most devout Catholic I know how to be; I’m also very tolerant of other faiths and belief systems. But what about my teaching colleagues who aren’t? What are we going to do about the teachers who won’t allow followers of other religions to worship in their classrooms because they honestly and sincerely believe it’s all occult or devil worship? What about teachers who will use prayer time as an opportunity to evangelize, who require students to memorize Bible passages in preparation for tomorrow’s prayer time? And what about teachers who don’t have a whole lot of respect for Catholicism? What am I going to do when some of my students tell me that Mrs. So-and-so informed them that Catholicism is nothing more than idolatry? How am I going to be able to sit next to her at the next staff meeting without throwing her nasty looks? Worse, what if she’s on my evaluation committee in the spring?
  • And then we have the kids who need to be sex segregated in order to pray. So we’re going to have the Muslim boys praying in the library, the Muslim girls praying in the cafeteria, the Orthodox boy in here and the Orthodox girls over there. And all of this moving students around is going to eat away at instructional time. Many people think public schools don’t spend enough time teaching core subject matter as it is; they’re going to rip us positively up now that we’re devoting 45 minutes of every morning to mandated prayer.
*So, it’s too complicated to accommodate every faith and creed. I get that. Okay, then we’re going to have a short amount of time for students to sit quitely. Those who can pray that way will, and the rest are going to stew resentfully or go to sleep. Probably go to sleep. Or, will the principal read some generic, all-encompassing, creedless “good-will message” during the morning announcements? To what end?

Do you see where I’m going with this?

Public schools are already under so many mandates that take instructional time away from teachers and students. And we’re already struggling trying to implement the various and sundry social science experiments that have rolled out in the past 40 years, we really don’t need another one. Let’s leave mandated prayer out of the public schools, please.

Luna
 
I have to agree with sw85. While I would say that mandatory prayer isn’t the best of decisions, decisions on what constitutes an improper mixing of religion and the state can sometimes go overboard. Telling an instructor that they can’t judge students’ work based on the religious beliefs of their students is just a measure of establishing fairness, but it’s easy to flip to the opposite extreme and force teachers to dance around their own personal beliefs like someone trying to avoid stepping on hot coals.

As far as prayer is concerned, it’s probably safer for schools to settle with something like a moment of silence. It gives the religious an opportunity to pray quietly based on their own religious beliefs (which is both easier and more honest than some sort of bizarre religiously neutral prayer that might be authorized by the state), and the non-religious are not likely to be deeply bothered by it. I believe that this is legal now as well. The public schools I attended did it.
 
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