Science is worthless

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warpspeedpetey

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let us destroy the idea that science can find a natural cause that explains the existence of the universe. it is a tired old thing and should be put down like the decrepit dog it is. we are so ingrained with the idea that science can solve all problems that we overlook a very simple undeniable truth. peteys’ law, one version stated below

something that doesnt exist cannot act to cause itself.

it seems so obvious that it need not be stated. its the implications of this most basic of facts that are of interest.

so, what does it mean?

it means that nothing physical that exists can be the result of physical processes, as science only deals with empirically observable phenomenon, those physical processes, science cannot offer any natural cause for the universe.

it also means.

there is no possible natural cause for the universe.

right now some of you may be thinking ‘what?’ how can you say that? anything is possible. what about this theory or that?

my response would be to apply peteys’ law, can that physical object, be it particle, or elephant cause itself? most likely not.

if a theory cant pass a petey test, it cant be an explanation for the origin of the universe.

every scientific theory advanced as a possible origin exlanation ia therefore false, worthless. science really has nothing to offer to the debate.

everybody can keep looking for waldo, they will undoubtedly do so, only, there is no waldo!
 
:rolleyes:

Are you sure you want to say science is worthless? I don’t think even the Vatican will back you up on that one.
 
I wouldn’t say its worthless. But I would question where we are spending the money and for what reason?

Science is now an industry.
 
buffalo said:
I wouldn’t say its worthless. But I would question where we are spending the money and for what reason?

Science is now an industry.
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Religion has been an industry for a long time also. 😛
 
The “first cause” argument is what catholics adhere to firmly of course. Not surprising since they feel the need to know every single possible thing. When one does not know something, they can easily say God did it and it is a mystery how he did it, but God had to be the one who did.
This is the basis for all religion. Coming up with a God to fill gaps.
 
StrawberryJam said:
The “first cause” argument is what catholics adhere to firmly of course. Not surprising since they feel the need to know every single possible thing. When one does not know something, they can easily say God did it and it is a mystery how he did it, but God had to be the one who did.
This is the basis for all religion. Coming up with a God to fill gaps.
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There will always be at least one gap otherwise we would be God.

Just for laughs - when do you think we will know it all?

The basis for religion comes from its root words - “to bind oneself to God”.
 
StrawberryJam said:
The “first cause” argument is what catholics adhere to firmly of course. Not surprising since they feel the need to know every single possible thing. When one does not know something, they can easily say God did it and it is a mystery how he did it, but God had to be the one who did.
This is the basis for all religion. Coming up with a God to fill gaps.
Click to expand...
its not a G-d of the gaps arguement, its the bare inescapable fact there can be no natural explanation for existence.

it is an impossibility.
 
warpspeedpetey said:
tonyrey;5298774:
his is nice, but i think this one better explains why it is so. more than just the statement of bare fact.
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It explains nothing, but offers a philisophical argument that appeals to those who have a need to have answers now and not be willing to test them, and change them if they are later proven wrong.

Science does not claim with certainty there is no God. You claim faith for an answer to things and will not change that no matter what and will not change that even if there ever will be evidence to the contrary.

Science will agree there is with evidence and proof.
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StrawberryJam said:
Tell the Vatican to get rid of the areas of scientific study they do.
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what does that have to do with my argument? their studies are no more likely to pass a petey test than any other, should one be proposed.
 
warpspeedpetey said:
what does that have to do with my argument? their studies are no more likely to pass a petey test than any other, should one be proposed.
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You said it was worthless. So tell the Vatican it is spending a lot of money and time and research in science if that is so. Or maybe you can see how your thread title is really silly?
 
buffalo said:
There would be around 80 atheists out of a job.😃
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Not sure about that buffalo. There are priests that are very involved in science in your faith, and other catholics. Are you really so sure you want to say this?
 
Going back to the OP the sciences have been getting large sums of money based on the idea it is the right thing to fund any science. This should be re-evaluated. It is not politically correct to cut science funding.
 
buffalo said:
There will always be at least one gap otherwise we would be God.

Just for laughs - when do you think we will know it all?

The basis for religion comes from its root words - “to bind oneself to God”.
Click to expand...
And your pocketbook.
 
StrawberryJam said:
warpspeedpetey;5298806:
It explains nothing, but offers a philisophical argument that appeals to those who have a need to have answers now and not be willing to test them, and change them if they are later proven wrong.

Science does not claim with certainty there is no God. You do.
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i dont claim that at all. i am merely pointing out that the hunt for a natural explanation is futile.

if the premise are true, the conclusion then is true.

premise

nothing physical can cause itself, as something that doesnt exist cannot act. true?

science only deals with empirically observable phenomenon. true?

conclusion

as no physical thing can cause itself, science cannot provide a explanation for the origin of the universe. true?

if not, then what mechanism may science use to address the issue?
Click to expand...
 
StrawberryJam said:
Not sure about that buffalo. There are priests that are very involved in science in your faith, and other catholics. Are you really so sure you want to say this?
Click to expand...
Of course there are many Catholics involved. The Catholic church built modern science.

I was referring jokingly (hence the big grin :D) to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences whose members are atheist or agnostic.
 
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