Scientific Proof Abortion Is Killing

  • Thread starter Thread starter the2112
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Murder is premeditated and unjust killing, so murder is a subset of killing …] Some killing is not premeditated nor unjust, in which case it may be permissible, i.e., for self-defense.
With the exception of what I’ll consider less significant nuances, I agree.
One person’s situational ethics are another person’s poor excuse. It is not a “catch-all” justification. You would need to make a case, not cite a meaningless phrase.
My previous reply was not made with the intent of justifying abortion. I’m pointing out that there are differences between the statements made the post that I was replying to and how people seem to think and behave. It was stated “To even try to justify abortion means that person is also OK with ANY type of killing,”. But a person that tries to justify abortion is not necessarily okay with any type of killing. The first does not imply the second.

I mention situational ethics because some people consider the situation in which an action occurs. Even you mentioned some one killing in self defense. The self defense situation may impact one’s moral evaluation of that killing. You also mentioned abortion as a matter of convenience, with convenience situations being those in which some would evaluate it as immoral.
 
I couldn’t kill my five year old because I view them as a financial burden or because they negatively impact my lifestyle, which do count towards accessing an abortion. That would appear to make these abortions the unjust and premeditated killing of a human being, aka murder.
I believe abortion is pre-med. murder too.

I understand what you said about killing a 5 yr old, but it made me wonder…why?

Abortion is legal, even if its just for convenience, so if a govt allows abortion, why would it be against the killing of a 5yr old child then?..One could make the argument that the kid has become too much of a burden and they wish to get rid of it now, so whats the difference if they kill the child as a baby, or at 5 yrs old…NO difference in Gods eyes (imo)

Our society is highly immoral to begin with, it is strange to me they do not allow this?? Its the exact same thing as a killer saying, well, Im OK with killing a 30 yr old man, but I would NEVER ever kill a 35 yr old man…that is beyond me…This makes no sense, killing is killing, and if govt allows abortion, it has NO RIGHT to enforce other laws against killing living persons, and are total hypocrites since they do.

I want to make it clear, I am against abortion, and really any type of killing, even in wars, or by police. I think God holds EVERYONE accountable for ANY lives they take, but want to make the point, that one cannot say abortion is OK, and at the same time, say other murder is not ok.
 
With the exception of what I’ll consider less significant nuances, I agree.

My previous reply was not made with the intent of justifying abortion. I’m pointing out that there are differences between the statements made the post that I was replying to and how people seem to think and behave. It was stated “To even try to justify abortion means that person is also OK with ANY type of killing,”. But a person that tries to justify abortion is not necessarily okay with any type of killing. The first does not imply the second.

I mention situational ethics because some people consider the situation in which an action occurs. Even you mentioned some one killing in self defense. The self defense situation may impact one’s moral evaluation of that killing. You also mentioned abortion as a matter of convenience, with convenience situations being those in which some would evaluate it as immoral.
Oh I agree that moral decisions are multidimensional. The Church also recognizes that the morality of an act depends upon three features:
  1. the nature of the act itself
  2. the motives of the individual
  3. the circumstances surrounding the act.
This effectively means that all of the features are taken into account to decide on moral culpability or responsibility. So, the 1) act of killing another person may have mitigating features which diminish the responsibility of a person for doing so because they are acting 2) purely to protect or defend and in no premeditated way, 3) an innocent party from being killed by a crazed assailant.

Situational ethics do not function to make acts relatively moral or immoral because once all three dimensions are taken into account, any like act which has similar circumstances and motives will always be weighed as equally wrong or equally right and the agents equally excused or culpable. This is not relativism, it is a way of accounting for all the relevant features of any morally important action.

If aborting an infant after 8 months of pregnancy is in all relevant respects (the three features above) identical to killing a five year old, then the two acts ought to be regarded as equally morally right or wrong. So which is it? Right or wrong? The inconsistency is glaring on the part of abortion supporters.

There are two problems with the issue.

A) Dulled moral sensibilities where decision makers do not have a clear sense of what is right or wrong and therefore do not clearly see 1) the acts as being clearly wrong in themselves. The 2) motives and 3) circumstances do not make the act morally right, they mitigate or completely negate culpability or reduce the responsibility of the agent or exonerate them completely, but never make the act “right.”

B) Not weighing 2) motives and 3) circumstances appropriately when rendering a moral decision. In other words, a motive or circumstance may be given too much weight in excusing the act or when irrelevant factors are allowed to be included in the accounting and wrongly invoke motives or appeal to irrelevant circumstances.

For example, what difference is there, that would make killing a one month old child wrong because his/her existence places a burden on the parents to care for this child that would not make it equally wrong to abort a ninth month pre-born child for the same motives and roughly identical circumstances?

The de facto position ought to be that killing a 3,4 or 5 month child should be treated the same as killing (aborting) a pre-born. Both are killing in the same sense. A proabortionist needs to show that there is a relevant and important difference between a pre-born and post-born child that would make it wrong to kill the post-born but NOT wrong to kill (abort) the pre-born under the same circumstances and for roughly the same reasons.

Appeals to the emotional state of the mother, the financial costs or stresses on parents, etc. that do not excuse killing a post-born child should not count any differently where aborting (killing) a pre-born is being considered. Location or physical dependency just are not sufficient. Abortion is as wrong as killing a post-born child.

Why that is not clear to people is an important question.
 
I think most people now realize that abortion is killing, but the problem is that people don’t care

These babies aren’t “important” in some people’s opinions. People care if a two year old baby is killed because it’s stealing those two years of life it had, but a 10 week old baby? Some justify the murder with “Well, it’s not like the baby ever had anything, so the killing isn’t sad or bad.”

I dunno, this view is just something I’ve seen a lot of lately.

Basically, some humans are saying that the younger you are, and the less experience you’ve had = the less important you are.

(Sorry if someone already posted the exact same thing I said, I didn’t have time to read the responses to this 😊 )
 
I think most people now realize that abortion is killing, but the problem is that people don’t care

These babies aren’t “important” in some people’s opinions. People care if a two year old baby is killed because it’s stealing those two years of life it had, but a 10 week old baby? Some justify the murder with “Well, it’s not like the baby ever had anything, so the killing isn’t sad or bad.”

I dunno, this view is just something I’ve seen a lot of lately.

Basically, some humans are saying that the younger you are, and the less experience you’ve had = the less important you are.

(Sorry if someone already posted the exact same thing I said, I didn’t have time to read the responses to this 😊 )
I agree and find it completely amazing that anyone could say, its OK to kill a baby about to be born, but its absolutely horrible for anyone to kill a 1 or 2 yrd old child LOL…How does 1 or 2 yrs make that much difference to them?

The next time I hear someone arguing for abortion, Im going to ‘grill’ them about killing of a 2 yr old kid, and how they really should not think this is wrong either. Plus whenever a young child like this is killed, it is national news, all kinds of police and civilians come out to help with the case, everyone is so devoted to finding the killer, but on the other hand, babies are killed by the hundreds each week in those same cities, yet no one cares…??? Im sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense at all!!!

A person is either for or against killing…there can be no in between LOL, so ANY person who thinks abortion is OK and also says they think killing a 1 or 2 yr old kid is wrong, well, they are 100% hypocrites and literally CANNOT have such a belief. lol

The same goes for police and other law enforcement, they make a big deal whenever a young kid is killed, they devote themselves to the case and finding the killer, but when abortions take place…they dont even talk about it…??? I sure hope none of these cops are christians…if they are, they are committing one HUGE mortal sin, just for the sake of their worldly job. I truly feel most sorry for them.
 
I agree and find it completely amazing that anyone could say, its OK to kill a baby about to be born, but its absolutely horrible for anyone to kill a 1 or 2 yrd old child LOL…How does 1 or 2 yrs make that much difference to them?
I don’t think it is directly the 1 or 2 years that is making the difference to the person. It is the emotional connection that some one is able to make (whether authentic, or from some form of projection, it doesn’t matter when looking at motivation). If some one sees a baby it may touch them emotionally. If they see it smile they may find them-self smiling without trying. If the baby is is in pain it may make a person look bad. This can happen even with a child that is not ones own. It doesn’t seem to be limited to human-to-human interaction. The same thing can occur with humans and some other entity that at least appears to be able of expressing emotions or pain. If some one sees a dog kicked it can make the person feel uncomfortable seeing it yelp in pain.

As it relates to a fetus, some one may not have made the emotional connection. Growth, bundle of cells, blastocyst, baby, child, human being; some of these seem to indicate stronger connections than others. If there’s little to no empathetic connection it may be easy for some one to not see the willful termination of what could be a healthy pregnancy* as being a murder or as being wrong.
    • here I’m excluding ectopic pregnancies or other forms of pregnancy that may be likely to kill the mother without producing a child that could be born.
 
The one standing fact in the ongoing abortion debate is the fact that abortion does kill a baby. Faye Wattleton (longest presedent of Planned Parenthood) says in an interview,
“I think we have deluded ourselves into believing that people don’t know that abortion is killing. So any pretense that abortion is not killing is a signal of our ambivalence, a signal that we cannot say yes, it kills a fetus.”
It is simply a non-negotiable point.

abort73.com/abortion/medical_testimony/
 
The one standing fact in the ongoing abortion debate is the fact that abortion does kill a baby. Faye Wattleton (longest presedent of Planned Parenthood) says in an interview,
“I think we have deluded ourselves into believing that people don’t know that abortion is killing. So any pretense that abortion is not killing is a signal of our ambivalence, a signal that we cannot say yes, it kills a fetus.”
It is simply a non-negotiable point.

abort73.com/abortion/medical_testimony/
yes, its murder, pure and simple, no way to whitewash it, I dont know whats worse, the legalized killing of babies, or the fact that everyone opposed to it just lets it go on? I have a feeling we are all going to be judged accordingly too when we die.

The problem is, most people say they believe its wrong, but they are only willing to go so far to oppose it, and their opinion of going any further, would inconvenience their lives, or put them in jail, or cause them to loose their jobs, etc. I dont think that will be an acceptable excuse to God though.

I also cannot understand why God has allowed this to go on for so long, how long did it take him before he decided to destroy Sodom or Gomorrah? Maybe he is waiting for all the people who oppose it, to gather tens of thousands of other people who oppose it and fight to stop it, no matter what it takes. But even the churches of today are not willing to go that far…too concerned with mans laws.lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top