Scott Hahn: Fourth Cup. Please Help

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I have a question about Scott Hahn’s tape the Fourth Cup.
I am explaining this to someone. We are at the point of where Scott Hahn is explaining that Jesus won’t drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom comes. And also when Scott Hahn talks about the Kingdom he explains it like this: “the glory of Christ’s kingdom is the truth and the love that he manifested upon the cross.” So in summary Scott Hahn says that Jesus drinks the last cup when his Kingdom came (when he was on the cross dying.)

So the person I am explaining this to has a comment, he said that in Matthew 26:27-29 explains that the Kingdom is in heaven. 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

How Could I explain this point? Thanks in advance.
 
Well I have always believed that the Kingdom begins with Jesus death and resurrection, so that when he shares meals with the disciples after the Resurrection he is drinking it with them in the kingdom.

But I also don’t understand the whole “fourth cup” thing since none of the gospels numbers the cups. Luke says the Eucharistic cup was the cup “after the meal” which it would seem would be the fourth cup - which is also the cup of the covenant - the Sinai covenant, and now the New Covenant.

I’ve looked at the transcript of Scott’s tape because I figured it was a misunderstanding, but he goes on at length about it, so I don’t know . . .
 
i would avoid Hahn on this fourth cup stuff. It is his opinion, and I dont know any of the Fathers who shared his interpretation. Rule: follow the fathers.
 
markguitar_1 said:
I have a question about Scott Hahn’s tape the Fourth Cup.
I am explaining this to someone. We are at the point of where Scott Hahn is explaining that Jesus won’t drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom comes. And also when Scott Hahn talks about the Kingdom he explains it like this: “the glory of Christ’s kingdom is the truth and the love that he manifested upon the cross.” So in summary Scott Hahn says that Jesus drinks the last cup when his Kingdom came (when he was on the cross dying.)

So the person I am explaining this to has a comment, he said that in Matthew 26:27-29 explains that the Kingdom is in heaven. 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

How Could I explain this point? Thanks in advance.
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The Kingdom consists of the Church - well, all three churches - the Church Triumphant (in heaven), the Church Suffering (in Purgatory), and the Church Militant (those baptized in the faith).

The Church was born on the Cross. There was the Veil of the Temple that tore, as a sign that the veil between heaven and earth has been removed. And there is the lance in Jesus’ side. The blood and water signify the birth of the Church.

So yes, the Kingdom does come on the Cross. It’s not going to be here completely, however, until the New Jerusalem comes down.
 
NHInsider said:
Well I have always believed that the Kingdom begins with Jesus death and resurrection, so that when he shares meals with the disciples after the Resurrection he is drinking it with them in the kingdom.

But I also don’t understand the whole “fourth cup” thing since none of the gospels numbers the cups. Luke says the Eucharistic cup was the cup “after the meal” which it would seem would be the fourth cup - which is also the cup of the covenant - the Sinai covenant, and now the New Covenant.

I’ve looked at the transcript of Scott’s tape because I figured it was a misunderstanding, but he goes on at length about it, so I don’t know . . .
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the key to it is understanding the Jewish Seder. There are 4 cups that are drunk during the Passover. After the 3rd cup, the Jews would sings some of the Hallel Psalms and then proceed to drink the 4th Cup, which is called the Cup of Consummation. In one of the Gospels, I believe it’s Luke, the author describes how Jesus and the Apostles sang some songs (this would be the Hallel Psalms) and then immediately proceeded to the Garden of Gethsemene. Hence, the Cup of Consummation hasn’t been drunk.

On the Cross, what does Jesus say after he drinks the vinegar? “It is Finished”. What’s the better translation? “It is Consummated”… The Cup of Consummation was drunk on the Cross.
 
Rogerteder said:
i would avoid Hahn on this fourth cup stuff. It is his opinion, and I dont know any of the Fathers who shared his interpretation. Rule: follow the fathers.
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I agree with this is in a general way. 🙂 I haven’t read this particular book nor studied this particular interpretation but I have heard it is unusual or new.

Scott has a lot of novel interpretations he comes up with about big matters. He needs to refer more to tradition and the saints generally, or that’s all it is, a novel interpretation some guy came up with we shouldn’t take too seriously.

Not to knock the good books like ‘Rome Sweet Home’.

Or perhaps I have heard wrong on this since I haven’t read it. But that is my general impression of the fellow.
 
Rogerteder said:
i would avoid Hahn on this fourth cup stuff. It is his opinion, and I dont know any of the Fathers who shared his interpretation. Rule: follow the fathers.
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If he disagreed with the Father’s, you’d have a point. But you can’t really make this a carte blanche statement.

I don’t hold to everything Scott Hahn writes, but the 4th Cup certainly seems to hold water, if you ask me.
 
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