Secular Arguments to refute condom use

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Hello,

I need some solid secular arguments against the use of condom contraceptives. I am in a relationship with a Lutheran and although we agree on why the pill is wrong and harmful, I’m struggling to find secular arguments to refute condom usage. Perhaps this just comes down to faith and either you’re with the Church, or you aren’t?

I argued that the intimacy created by natural sex is biologically bonding and that sex with a condom cuts off the whole gift of self.

My bf argued that the use of the condom does not negate love within the husband and wife’s relationship since the couple may be looking out for the families financial resources, mental health, etc which would be a selfless reason to use a condom.

If anyone has better, more effective arguments please help! 👍
 
I can’t think of a secular argument to refute condom use entirely. After all, people are going to have casual sex, and IMO it’s far better if there is at least some protection from STDs and unplanned pregnancy.

But for a loving, committed relationship why would you want condoms? Even as an atheist I can say that while they don’t diminish the love between a husband and wife they do diminish the closeness that you feel during sex. That little piece of rubber prevents you from really feeling your partner. Anything that prevents you from feeling as close as you can during sex should be a no go as far as I’m concerned.
 
Maybe get the Theology of the Body dvds and watch them with him (if he is a Lutheran, I would assume he doesn’t need a completely secular explanation). Also, maybe attack it from the mindset of how NFP is just as effective in keeping family size manageable if one uses the method properly.
 
I argued that the intimacy created by natural sex is biologically bonding and that sex with a condom cuts off the whole gift of self.
Just some advice here.

I would not use this argument against condom use because it is simply incorrect from a biological standpoint. Oxytocin (the bonding hormone) is released through orgasm whether a condom is used or not. Having sex with a condom is just as biologically bonding as having sex without one.
 
Condoms have a 15% failure rate. Some argue condoms are the solution to unplanned or unwanted pregnancies, that is not true. 150000 women could get pregnant among 1 million women in the first year of using a condom. And what about STD or HIV/AIDS risk from the failure of condoms?

FDA said 1 in 50 condoms fail leakage tests

articles.latimes.com/1987-08-18/news/vw-2139_1_lambskin-condoms

South Africa recalled 1.5 million condoms after complaints of them breaking. Imagine the live that could of been put at risk because felt they were safe because the ewer using a condom

US donated 800 million condoms to the developing world in 1990, there could of been 3.2 million defective condoms within

Some condoms Planned Parenthood were selling got an ‘F’ from the FDA for reliability and strength. Other cooperations were then caught selling them to other countries

German study that tested 32 types of condoms, discovered 29 have cancer causing chemical
 
How about, it’s gross. And if we can’t restrain ourselves from having sex while we are fertile, then we must not really love each other, but rather we love the act.

Also, I enjoyed listening to this: www.giftfoundationdownloads.com/nakedwithoutshame.html.

But I think “it’s gross and doesn’t treat me with the dignity that I deserve” would work well on me if I was having issues on this point.

I have to point out though that if you are having to resort to secular arguments with your boyfriend then things are going to not work out so well for your relationship in the long term…
 
I find it strange that a guy is in favor of rubbers…most of us hate having to wear one. It reduces the feeling, and if you’re allergic to latex it’s impossible to wear and you have to resort to sheep skin which doesn’t protect well against STDs, and then disposing the condom after use…gross!

Most importantly it’s annoying to have to take a time-out to put one on.
 
Here is a Biblical argument I developed some time before. It should be suitable for any Christian. Unfortunately, these are mere notes (from an earlier debate on this forum), rather than a well-polished tract, but I hope they are useful.

(A)
Mark 7:20-23 (Douay Rheims)
20 But he said that the things which come out from a man, they defile a man.
21 For from within out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile a man.

(B)
That word “fornications” in verse 21 is porneiai. It is a rather broad term that is often alternately translated “adultery” or “sexual immorality.”

Similarly, “lasciviousness” in verse 22 is aselgeia. It also is a broad term alternately translated “lewdness,” “debauchery” or “lust.” Particularly, this is a self-indulgent variation.

Combined with the explicit reference to adultery (moicheiai for those now expecting Greek), Jesus warns against sexual sin 3 times in a list of only 12 terms that he calls “evil thoughts”.

(C)
Okay, now let’s have a look at contraception (there is no direct translation into Koine Greek for that word that I am aware of).

Way back in post #1, you define contraception:
I answer that, what is meant by “contraception” is a method invented by man in order to reduce the chances of pregnancy.

Unfortunately, this definition is incomplete. NFP is also a method invented by man in order to reduce the chance of pregnancy. Yet, NFP is fully endorsed and supported by the Church.

Let us therefore distinguish. Contraception allows a couple to seek sexual gratification while avoiding pregnancy. NFP allows a couple to avoid pregnancy by periodically abstaining.

Since actions come from the soul, a couple who choose contraception are choosing their pleasure above the personal issues that would preclude pregnancy. The action is objectively lascivious even if their reason for avoiding pregnancy is just.

Contrarily, a couple who practice NFP are choosing concern for the issues that preclude pregnancy above their pleasure. There is nothing objectively wrong with the inaction so long as the couple are in agreement (1 Corinthians 7:5).

(D)
My argument in posts (A)-(C) is in answer to the assertion in your thesis that Church teaching on contraception is primarily concerned with discipline, inferring that the moral argument is a derivation of the disciplinary teaching. My argument is that the reverse is the case. Namely, that the teaching is primarily moral in nature and that disciplinary teachings are merely manifestations of the deeper moral teaching. The core of my argument is exegetical in nature due to high barriers I perceived in the course of dialog. Specifically, an aversion to accept as final any statement other than one made by our Savior, Himself. I sought to entirely limit the argument to definition and application. The exegesis is already complete so what follows is mainly a guide to understanding it (the whole thing is [copied above]; I have [referenced] specific posts as needed).

The beginning of Mark 7 shows Jesus rebuking the Pharisees for their emphasis of discipline over the commandments. After rebuking them, he explains the teaching with the passage quoted in post (A). Plainly, Jesus is more concerned with what comes from inside the heart than that which is outside only.

The list of sins that Jesus gives to his apostles at the conclusion of the passage do not refer to specific actions. Rather, this is a conceptual list akin to the “Seven Deadly Sins.” I selected two particular sins from that list for definition in post (B). Porneiai is demonstrated to refer broadly to sexual sin while aselgeia is demonstrated to refer to self-serving (sexual) sin. I chose, at this time, to limit the exegesis to aselgeia because it seems more straightforward than the connection to porneiai. (NOTE: I do think that contraception can be shown to be porneiai through Natural Law-based analysis. Indeed, my initial personal reason for avoiding contraception follows such reasoning. However, that route did not seem expedient for our purposes in this thread,)

At that point, I encountered a difficulty in that your given definition of contraception lacked precision and could be applied equally to practices that are condemned and those which are allowed. Thus, I started post (C) with refinement and separation of the two categories.

The first subset, which I continued to call contraception, includes artificial means (barriers, drugs) and those techniques (withdrawal, oral and manual stimulation, etc) which couples use to engage in sexual activity even during the fertile time, yet without the chance of pregnancy. I expressed this with the definition: Contraception allows a couple to seek sexual gratification while avoiding pregnancy.

The second subset, which I now call NFP, includes any method of determining the time of fertility in order for the couple to avoid sexual activity during that time. This is permitted by the Church. This is expressed by the definition: NFP allows a couple to avoid pregnancy by periodically abstaining.

Having defined contraception and NFP thus, I then sought to apply the words of Jesus to each. Contraception, being self-gratifying, is clearly included in the class of sin that Jesus calls aselgeia. NFP, by not being self-gratifying, does not fall under that sin.​
 
I find it strange that a guy is in favor of rubbers…most of us hate having to wear one. It reduces the feeling, and if you’re allergic to latex it’s impossible to wear and you have to resort to sheep skin which doesn’t protect well against STDs, and then disposing the condom after use…gross!

Most importantly it’s annoying to have to take a time-out to put one on.
I’m hopeful that they are not active, In which case he would not know what it feels like to use a condom.

And if they are talking about a condom in the context of marriage they are not worried about STDs, but about pregnancy only.
 
I’m hopeful that they are not active, In which case he would not know what it feels like to use a condom.

And if they are talking about a condom in the context of marriage they are not worried about STDs, but about pregnancy only.
Pfft…then NFP. Just as effective as a condom and much more rewarding…both are in the mood? It’s during infertile times…just strip your clothes and go at it…no messing around with rubbers and no…“Oh I don’t have any, gotta run to the store!” then you run to the store you get them, come back and then they are no longer “in the mood”

Seriously condoms are a hassel, I thought they were necessary until I found out about NFP, then I was floored…someone actually found a way to have birth control without pills or sheaths.
 
Condoms have a 15% failure rate. Some argue condoms are the solution to unplanned or unwanted pregnancies, that is not true. 150000 women could get pregnant among 1 million women in the first year of using a condom. And what about STD or HIV/AIDS risk from the failure of condoms? That’s with typical use. With perfect use its 2% according to your graph. Don’t blame the condom for human error. With perfect use they work better than fertility awareness methods, as per your source.

FDA said 1 in 50 condoms fail leakage tests

articles.latimes.com/1987-08-18/news/vw-2139_1_lambskin-condoms
That article is A. About lambskin condoms which are less common and less effective than latex anyway and B. From 1987!!! It’s 25 years old! I would really need to see something far more recent to believe that that issue hasn’t been taken care of in two decades.

South Africa recalled 1.5 million condoms after complaints of them breaking. Imagine the live that could of been put at risk because felt they were safe because the ewer using a condom
I would like to point out that many products get recalled due to bad batches. But no one suggests not using cribs, car seats, toys, medications, or eating spinach, tomatoes, and beef.
US donated 800 million condoms to the developing world in 1990, there could of been 3.2 million defective condoms within

Some condoms Planned Parenthood were selling got an ‘F’ from the FDA for reliability and strength. Other cooperations were then caught selling them to other countries That’s from 1989! Hardly relevant now.

German study that tested 32 types of condoms, discovered 29 have cancer causing chemical
 
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BlueEyedLady:
That’s with typical use. With perfect use its 2% according to your graph. Don’t blame the condom for human error. With perfect use they work better than fertility awareness methods, as per your source.
You have made the point, there will always be human error which is why condoms can not be counted to prevent STDs or prevent pregnancy. 15% is the typical failure rate, and I think that neither that stat or the 2% counts whether the condoms have been stored in the correct temperature environment who can can also contribute to failure
I would like to point out that many products get recalled due to bad batches. But no one suggests not using cribs, car seats, toys, medications, or eating spinach, tomatoes, and beef.
Eating a bad tomato or spinach is not on the same level as people having sex and thinking a piece of technology will keep them from catching a disease or becoming pregnant.

Who knows how many defective condoms in the batch have contributed to people catching HIV or an STD

Have you heard of the risk compensation phenomenon which Harvard AIDS researcher Edward C Green has spoken of. If someone uses a technology to reduce risk, such as a condom, a phenomenon occurs where people are willing to take greater risk
 
I find it strange that a guy is in favor of rubbers…most of us hate having to wear one. It reduces the feeling, and if you’re allergic to latex it’s impossible to wear and you have to resort to sheep skin which doesn’t protect well against STDs, and then disposing the condom after use…gross!

Most importantly it’s annoying to have to take a time-out to put one on.
Or if your are like me and allergic to latex, you find that the sheep skin ones are powdered with latex to preserve the membrane more.
(most of the non lates ones are produced for those who want them through religious reasons, not due too latex allergies).

But on the origional note,
Hello,

I need some solid secular arguments against the use of condom contraceptives. I am in a relationship with a Lutheran and although we agree on why the pill is wrong and harmful, …
The pill is not wrong or harmful on itself. Unlike the condom which its only use is to prevent conception, (later was found to prevent std.s) there are real ailments it is used to treat such as , endometriosis (and why I was on them), as well as severe cases of PMS and menstrual cycle problems, acne and other ailments. It is only wrong if it is used for birth control.
 
You have made the point, there will always be human error which is why condoms can not be counted to prevent STDs or prevent pregnancy. 15% is the typical failure rate, and I think that neither that stat or the 2% counts whether the condoms have been stored in the correct temperature environment who can can also contribute to failure

Eating a bad tomato or spinach is not on the same level as people having sex and thinking a piece of technology will keep them from catching a disease or becoming pregnant.

Who knows how many defective condoms in the batch have contributed to people catching HIV or an STD

Have you heard of the risk compensation phenomenon which Harvard AIDS researcher Edward C Green has spoken of. If someone uses a technology to reduce risk, such as a condom, a phenomenon occurs where people are willing to take greater risk
Well, assuming the OP and her Lutheran boyfriend are planning on saving sex for marriage, the STD thing isn’t a problem. As for condom failure rate, well, it’s about the same as NFP failure rate with human error in the equation.

Honestly, I think the only secular argument you can use against a condom is that sex doesn’t feel as good for the guy. But then again, he could argue that having condom sex still feels better than having NO sex, which is what they’d have to do during the fertile period if they are trying to avoid pregnancy.

Personally, I think there is no good, solid, convincing secular argument against the morality of condom use within a marriage.

The OP would have to convince her boyfriend of the Catholic belief that sex must be both unitive and procreative in order for it to be moral. And then explain to him how/why using NFP is not a contraceptive strategy while using a condom IS.
 
I’m struggling to find secular arguments to refute condom usage. Perhaps this just comes down to faith and either you’re with the Church, or you aren’t?
Condoms are not 100% effective. Therefore, if a society is promiscuous and uses condoms as “protection” - there will always be some abortions and STD transmissions (see figures for the UK at the bottom). It is simpy not credible to suggest otherwise. It is immoral for a society to indulge in promiscuity - knowing their “protection” measures are not full effective. It is immoral to condemn some babies to be aborted, or some lives to be blighted by disease, just so other people can have meaningless sex.

Read up on Dr Edward C Green, a public health expert (formerly of Harvard, now wih another Insutution).

In brief, Dr Green agrees with Pope Benedict that:
  • condoms have achieved nothing in Africa
  • condoms may actually exacerbate the problem in Africa
  • suggests their application in Africa is profit driven, not public health driven
  • monogamous relationships (as per Cathoic morality) are the best way for a society to live
  • use of condoms socially is based on glib, high-level analysis - it is not an evidence based public health policy
He writes very good books too, read up on them - especially “Broken Promises”. See these links too:
Is Pope Benedict being criticized unfairly for his comments about HIV and condoms?
Dr Green: This is hard for a liberal like me to admit, but yes, it’s unfair because in fact, the best evidence we have supports his comments — at least his major comments, the ones I have seen.
christianitytoday.com/ct/2009/marchweb-only/111-53.0.html

faithvictoria.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/the-pope-was-right/

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/27/AR2009032702825.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_C._Green

If people will not accept the testimony of a respected expert, like Dr Green, then they are obviously an exceptionally blinkered individual.

In the UK, we are up to our necks in condoms - and yet we still have 200,000 abortions per year. What better demonstration of the uselessness of condoms could there be?

Ultimately, condoms represent a way for individuals to have meaningless sex and largely avoid any consequences. But when employed on a national or global scale - multiplying the chance of a failure by million or billions - the failure rate means abortion and STDs become a significant public issue.
 
Well, assuming the OP and her Lutheran boyfriend are planning on saving sex for marriage, the STD thing isn’t a problem. As for condom failure rate, well, it’s about the same as NFP failure rate with human error in the equation.

Honestly, I think the only secular argument you can use against a condom is that sex doesn’t feel as good for the guy. But then again, he could argue that having condom sex still feels better than having NO sex, which is what they’d have to do during the fertile period if they are trying to avoid pregnancy.

Personally, I think there is no good, solid, convincing secular argument against the morality of condom use within a marriage.

The OP would have to convince her boyfriend of the Catholic belief that sex must be both unitive and procreative in order for it to be moral. And then explain to him how/why using NFP is not a contraceptive strategy while using a condom IS.
You can still be exposed to an STD and be a virgin such as hepatitis or oral herpes

NFP can be more reliable than condoms, but the intention to use NFP unless there are serious reasons to delay pregnancy, should not be practised with a contraceptive mentality
 
OP, the natural law argument is a secular argument (that is, it could be used with non-Christians as it is not Biblically founded). However, it requires that the person accept Natural Law as a basis for rightly choosing actions.

The simplest way I could put it:

Humans, as sexual beings, are meant by their nature to reproduce when they copulate near or during ovulation. Therefore, whenever they copulate, they should allow the possibility for any gametes present to meet. To do otherwise would be to deny an integral part of their humanity.
 
You can still be exposed to an STD and be a virgin such as hepatitis or oral herpes
I understand that, but I thought that we were trying to give secular reasons as to why using a condom is wrong. I don’t think the whole STD thing can be a reason why wearing a condom is wrong because using NFP to avoid doesn’t protect against STDs either. 🤷

I guess I just don’t think that would make a very good argument when you’re trying to convince someone of the morality of condom use vs NFP.
NFP can be more reliable than condoms, but the intention to use NFP unless there are serious reasons to delay pregnancy, should not be practised with a contraceptive mentality
Ok, but the point here is to try to give a secular argument to a Lutheran man regarding the morally of condom use within a marriage.

I was just saying, I don’t think there really is any.
 
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