Seder Supper....Passover

[The_Geographer]

'I do not speak rashly, but as I feel and think. I do not think that many priests are saved, but that those who perish are far more numerous. The reason is that the office requires a great soul. For there are many things to make a priest swerve from rectitude, and he requires great vigilance on every side. . .

Do you not perceive how many qualities a bishop must have that he may be strong in his teaching, patient, and hold fast to the faithful word which is according to doctrine? What care and pains does this require! Moreover, he is answerable for the sins of others. To pass over everything else: If but one soul dies without Baptism, does it not entirely endanger his own salvation? For the loss of one soul is so great an evil that it is impossible to express it in words. For if the salvation of that soul was of such value that the Son of God became man and suffered so much, think of how great a punishment must the losing of it bring.’

St. John Chrysostom, Archbishop, Father, and Doctor of the Church

Please don’t abuse the words of a man, a Saint, that I hold dear to my heart. This is much different and now it is you crying wolf. I do realize that the USCCB has no authority. But we should be concerned about what they have to say and more specifically what our ordinary says. Mine approved it. My personal perspective is that it is a learning experience to show the life of Jews and to help us to understand the heritage from which we came. It’s more like reenactment of a historical event, not truly celebrating it the same way a Jew would. If you read the reasons why we are to be careful in how we represent it and avoid putting our own slant on it, its really so that we don’t kink the ecumenical work the Church is engaged in because this would be an insult to a practicing Jew.

In order to understand things we often need to reenact them, but it should be done with someone that remains faithful to the Church’s teachings as ordered, not as some schematic group would do. And for us this was done in the context of education on the liturgy and tradition.

 

[The_Geographer]

This is not an open book for people to debate but to discuss interesting learned lessons from the experience. Go to the Traditional Catholic forum and bring your case there. If I feel up to it I’ll go there. But I avoid it now because I’m avoiding what I refer to as “the crazies”. There are far to many self appointed judges and juries there for my taste. It that is where God leads me then so be it. But until then I’m learning from where I’m at today. Notice that Church teaching was never brought up until some of you decided to over shadow this topic? I’d have to do more studying of this topic to even speak with any intelligence on the matter. But this is not what this thread is for. It was interesting and the second time I’ve done it. Both experiences were driven by a narrator. Our participation was not the same as if we were actually celebrating the ritual in the sense that we were taking it to heart as if we were Jewish.

 

[Shin]

My first thoughts are: So Christianity is not enough for you? You have to adopt the rituals of other religions? Don’t get enough out of what’s offered here?

It’s one thing to study the past, it’s quite another to take up its religious worship.

I have yet to hear a real reply to what the Seder Meal contains – the prayers awaiting a Messiah, who has not yet arrived. Who feels comfortable with that?

And yet some people feel comfortable participating in that.

But the Christian Passover – is the Mass.

Going backwards instead of forwards…

Historical re-enactment… Well. People have excuses for everything don’t they. But what actually occurs… is it that way for everyone… ? No it is not that way for all the participants. And what ultimately comes of it?

Good intentions… what road is paved with this? What about traditional practice? I sympathize with the good intentions… but the objective facts and results are different.

‘Bethink you how in the attack against our Lord, high priests and scribes and elders devised the plot, and how few of the people were found really receiving the word. Remember that it is not the multitude who are being saved, but the elect of God. Be not then affrighted at the great multitude of the people who are carried hither and thither by winds like the waters of the sea. If but one be saved, like Lot at Sodom, he ought to abide in right judgment, keeping his hope in Christ unshaken, for the Lord will not forsake His holy ones. Salute all the brethren in Christ from me. Pray earnestly for my miserable soul.’

St. Basil the Great, Bishop, Doctor and Father of the Church

 

[The_Geographer]

‘Bethink you how in the attack against our Lord, high priests and scribes and elders devised the plot, and how few of the people were found really receiving the word. Remember that it is not the multitude who are being saved, but the elect of God. Be not then affrighted at the great multitude of the people who are carried hither and thither by winds like the waters of the sea. If but one be saved, like Lot at Sodom, he ought to abide in right judgment, keeping his hope in Christ unshaken, for the Lord will not forsake His holy ones. Salute all the brethren in Christ from me. Pray earnestly for my miserable soul.’

St. Basil the Great, Bishop, Doctor and Father of the Church

Start your own thread.

 

[Shin]

Well, sometimes it’s best to leave be and leave be.

I have said my piece.

We may agree to disagree.

Peace.

 

[The_Geographer]

Well, sometimes it’s best to leave be and leave be.

I have said my piece.

We may agree to disagree.

Peace.

I did not agree nor did I agree with you. Scroll to the top of your page and read “Non-Catholic Religions”. That’s where you should have stopped. You words are way over the top, not from authority and quite insulting to decent people who fail to see anything rational in your thought process other than quoting a few church fathers and using them to your own advantage. None of us as Catholics are permitted to put our own non-Catholic twist to anything. And after being led away, or chased by liberal and conservative Catholics in my past I choose to stand up to anything that seems irrational to me. I listen to my bishop. If you attack my bishop, then it’s throw down time. I do my best to obey my bishop, even when I disagree with his pastoral care. I am a 3rd degree Knight and refuse to allow anyone to directly attack our priests, deacons and bishops, even if its in the context of the USCCB. Please show me where the Vatican does not recognize our USCCB. I could show you evidence otherwise just by pointing to the Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[Sarah_Angel]

A Christian Seder does not deny the coming of the Messiah.

Shin, have you ever attended a Christian Seder?

EDIT: I just listened to some of that sermon, and I think that the guy misses the mark about what the Seder actually celebrates. We are not celebrating a duplicate of the Jewish passover. Rather, we as Christians have added to it so that we are celebrating Jesus’ coming and dying for us. We speak in past tense about the Christ, whereas the Jews speak to the future.

I know that the Eucharist was instilled for this reason, but the Mass doesn’t spend time reflecting in depth on all the covenants that the Lord made with the men in the OT. The Seder certainly is not a requirement, nor should it be, but if we celebrate the Seder knowing and recognizing that Christ already came to redeem the world, how is this breaking the first commandment?