Sedevacantism against bible?

[dominikus28]

I have considered sedevacantism but have concluded against it because of this passage in the bible:
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 16:18[/BIBLEDRB]

Doesn’t this say that the Church will not be wrong? Sedevacantists think the Church is currently occupied by an antipope, doesn’t that mean that the gates of hell have infiltrated the Church?

 

[giuseppeTO]

I have considered sedevacantism but have concluded against it because of this passage in the bible:
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 16:18[/BIBLEDRB]

Doesn’t this say that the Church will not be wrong? Sedevacantists think the Church is currently occupied by an antipope, doesn’t that mean that the gates of hell have infiltrated the Church?

The See of Peter has been occupied by Antipopes in the past. Sedevacantists will claim that as long as there are faithful Catholics, whether there is a Pope or not, the Church has not defected. certainly during the times of interregnum (in between Popes) the gates of hell have not prevailed. Most sedevacantists consider the time since Pope John XXIII to be a time of interregnum.

The quote you give guarantees that the Church is incapable of error when teaching faith and morals. It does not guarantee that there will never be an antipope (as during the Great Schism) or that popes and Bishops may adhere to error (as during the Arian Heresy) or that Popes are immune to giving public scandal.

But since there are no valid grounds for the sedevacantist claim that any Pope since the Second Vatican Council is guilty of formal heresy, it is error to believe that any Pope since V2 is an antipope. More to your point, the premise that the last 3 or 4 Popes were/are antipopes because they were elected by bishops (cardinals) who were not bishops or cardinals because of modern faults introduced into the conveyance of the episcopacy, does pretty clearly, IMHO, insinuate that the Church (hierarchy) has defected and the gates of hell have prevailed since there cannot now be another Vicar of Christ without some divine intervention or second coming of Christ. Since Christ designated Peter as the foundation of the church, it appears that Christ intended the church and the papacy to always be coexistant. For it you lose the rock or foundation of the church, or anything else, the structure it supports must surely fail.

 

[FightingFat]

I have considered sedevacantism

Why? What has troubled you?

Doesn’t this say that the Church will not be wrong? Sedevacantists think the Church is currently occupied by an antipope, doesn’t that mean that the gates of hell have infiltrated the Church?

One might say that is either beautifully put, or perhaps a bit of a simplistic perspective. Either way, I think you are right. God knew what would happen, He know everything that will pass and knowing this, why would He allow such a fundamental error in the main body of His believers? Sedevacantism is dis-unity, it’s schism and so heretical.

 

[dominikus28]

Thanks for the replies, I understand now.

Why? What has troubled you?

The main reason was the I thought that Vatican II changed alot of things and of the things I read (on wikipedia. I know, I know…) it seemed like the Church was becoming more and more relaxed. It seems now the Church doesn’t really tackle opposition as fiercely as i think it should. I mean, there’s no public excommunications of Catholic politicians who support abortion but I also understand that this doesn’t conflict with any teachings of the Church.

Thanks

 

[thistle]

Thanks for the replies, I understand now.

The main reason was the I thought that Vatican II changed alot of things and of the things I read (on wikipedia. I know, I know…) it seemed like the Church was becoming more and more relaxed. It seems now the Church doesn’t really tackle opposition as fiercely as i think it should. I mean, there’s no public excommunications of Catholic politicians who support abortion but I also understand that this doesn’t conflict with any teachings of the Church.

Thanks

There is no public excommunication for supporting abortion. Participating in or supporting abortion results in automatic excommunication.
Any public excommunication would be for heresy (i.e. rejecting a Church teaching, e.g. on abortion).

 

[agent_grey]

the following statements are of the top of my head and are not intended to be word for word quotes.

Daniel
And he shall take the kingdom by fraud and cause the continual sacrifice to be taken away and setup the abomination in the holy place.

Jesus Christ
When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place spoken of by Daniel the prophet(let the reader understand)

Jesus Christ
Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life

Jesus Christ
This is my body which is broken for you
this is my blood which is shed for you

Let him who understands count…
He causes all to to bekilled…

If Sedevacantism is untrue today it will be true sooner or latter

Sedevacantists are very much built upon Peter. But yes if the current Popes are in fact lawfully appointed we are in some deep dodo!