Seeking help

[Tom]

Additionally, read John chap 17 carefully (it’s a little long to cut and paste), whom is Jesus speaking of? His Apostles, the leaders of His Church. Pay particular attention to the Words of our Lord about His Church remaining one. Do you think He is pleased that millions have left His Church?

 

[Tom]

John 21:15 When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. 17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.

In John 21:17 “Feed my sheep”… Our Lord had promised the spiritual supremacy to St. Peter; St. Matt. 16. 19; and here he fulfils that promise, by charging him with the superintendency of all his sheep, without exception; and consequently of his whole flock, that is, of his own church.

 

[Tom]

RyanL:

prjct,

i am pleased beyond words that you are earnestly seeking answers, and not attacking what you don’t believe/understand. i consider you a true brother in Christ Jesus.

i understand what you are saying, and i hope i can provide some help. i attend baptist church with my wife (a baptist) after mass every sunday, and i know that the preacher is a man who is earnestly led by God. unfortunately, he is not led in “all truth”, as can be evidenced both by the disharmony of the protestant denominations and even his lack of unity with traditional baptist teachings. in fact, there are other “Godly” people in our baptist bible-study who disagree with the preacher about matters of faith and morals. but how can this be, if they are indeed led by God? as the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion, but of Truth, all of these “led by God” preachers and laity cannot possibly be guarenteed the “fullness of truth”. so what gives? are we all in fact guarenteed to be led to the “fullness of truth” by the Holy Spirit? or is there such a thing as heresy, perpetuated by earnest men who believe they are being led? how are we to know? did Christ leave us to read a book in the dark by ourselves, or is there a pillar and bulwark of truth to which we can turn, assured by God Himself that we could trust it? could we, on our own, be deceived, or even deceive ourselves? does the bible tell us what to do?

here is a link to a biblical explaination that i believe should help. really, only question 1 is pertanent, but the other questions could help future objections.
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0202sbs.asp

let me know if these scriptures help,
RyanL

Excellent post Ryan

 

[prjct]

Thank you all for your insight - sorry for the extended delay in a response…life sidetracks ya every now and then…

I have read and re-read nearly all the posts since I last wrote and after reading John 17, upon a suggestion, I find:

John 17:11

11 I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, protect them by Your name that You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are

John 17: 20-23

20 I pray not only for these, but also for those who believe in Me through their message. 21 May they all be one, just as You, Father, are in Me and I am in You. May they also be one in Us, so that the world may believe You sent Me. 22 I have given them the glory that You have given to Me. May they be one just as We are one. 23 I am in them and You are in Me. May they be made completely one, so that the world may know You sent Me and that You have loved them just as You have loved Me.

Clearly included among the context of this chapter is a call of unity:

May they all be one, just as We are. Yes? … Including: not only these, but also who believe in Me through their message.

It is this point directly that I wrestle with not so much from a “knowledge of all truth” point. Rather it is the limiting of any of God’s graces to a few, rather then us all.

I have been taught that God’s love for me is as great as His love for all and any of us…all the time, all the same, never ending.

How can I then understand the separation, or division, of the all, or the whole, by considering someone, anyone, better or worse, stronger or weaker, more powerful or more weak, than I?

One might say that this is grandiose thinking and it may very well be…however, this thinking is grounded in Scripture and I have not yet found Scripture that refutes it.

To reply to specific questions -

Do you think He is pleased that millions have left His Church?

No. He is equally not pleased at the division amongst believers, particulary those who are members of His Church which includes all believers.

Again, whom is this from and to whom is it written?

2 John 1: 1-2 says

… John 1:1 From the elder to an elect lady, and her children, whom I love in the truth, and not I only, but also those who know the truth.

I think this was written by John to the elect lady and her children. Yes?

Absolutely correct, that is His will, to have all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Why would you disagree with that?

I do not disagree with this.

Thanks & God Bless,