Seeking LifeTeen Pro/Con opinions

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agapewolf said:
Divides familes? By your reasoning, ANYTHING that would conflict with the 11 year old singing in the choir would “divide the family”. What if you sang in the adult choir at another mass? Does that divide the family? That reasoning doesn’t make sense.

I have seen teens BRING THEIR PARENTS BACK TO CHURCH because of the LT mass. After a LT Mass when teens sit together (or sit with their families if they wish), and they sing and participate and talk excitedly about their church to their parents, I have had parents with tears in their eyes thanking me for having such a ministry that brought their teens and families back.

Unfortunately, there will be musicians that think it’s a performance. The Musicians at my parish pray hard, and all they want is to get the people to sing louder. The drums are done tastefully (by the way, the only instrument we have today mentioned in the bible is the drums), and the utilization of them creates tension in the music that pulls the people’s voices to be louder. I plan music from ALL time periods. Please remember at one time, chant was new. Harmony was scandalous. Before that, the singing that took place at the wedding at canaa was more guttural and dissonant. Tradition is important, however, we shouldn’t exclude that musicians today have very valuable additions to Catholic repertoire. You may not prefer that style of music….thats ok. But that doesn’t discredit it.
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Well, yes, it divides families. If an adult in our family sang in the adult choir at 10:30 mass, we would ALL go to 10:30 mass. If the son sang at 8:30 mass, we would ALL go to 8:30 mass. No choirs sing at Life Teen, except the Life Teen band, which is a very elite group at our parish. Only the select few are personally invited to join, not the general parish invite like other choirs in our parish. I don’t care for it. I don’t find it prayerful or reverent. I find it full of emotionalism. Maybe if one of us was “invited” to join, I’d feel differently. But I don’t see any of us getting that select invitation anytime soon. I guess I don’t find it at all welcoming.

Edited to add that I guess I’m not that enthralled with it because we’ve always been a regular church-going family (morning masses) with our kids from when they were days old. To suddenly now have invitations extended to my teen to join the youth for Life Teen makes it feel like he has to choose between his family’s traditions (Sunday morning mass and breakfast) and his friends and youth minister (Sunday evening mass). Hmmm… family or friends. Guess what? It has made my teen sometimes resentful (sometimes of us for going in the morning, sometimes of his friends for going at night), it has made him somewhat withdrawn from us (he knows we don’t like the style, and he has said he prefers the quieter mass, but enjoys his friends). It has served to divide us, not unite us. Before Life Teen, we had youth as ushers, greeters, readers, etc at morning mass. Now we still have a few, but the youth ministers really balk at scheduling them anywhere except at Life Teen.
 
I think you missed my point. I’m talking about if BOTH of you wanted to sing. Your 11 year old at the early mass and parent at the later one. BOTH…same reasoning as your teen wanting to go to a different mass because it feeds him (or whatever reason).

Music minstry should NOT be an open call EVER. My adult choir is not an open call…just as you would not put a person with severe arthritis unable to be stable with the Eucharist as an EMHC, you should not put someone who is tone deaf as a music minister. My music ministers at my parish have to be able to sing on key. ALL of my groups are elite. (note…I did not say elitist), but elite. They are exceptional because the Lord deserves the best.

The style of music at Lifeteen mass is not a group choir style.
THere are not unlimited parts to fill. It is usually done with one to a part (2 at the most), if you do more, than it is very caustic on the ears. THe microphones should be blended by someone knowledgable only so that it makes the congregation sound like they are singing louder.

I’m glad your family is a church going family… thats fine…the point is though, many aren’t. LifeTeen serves as a first step to getting people back there…if you read my previous posts, you will see my experience with that. It appears that your teen does not need the LT format to progress in his faith. Many to most do. One of my former teens who is now in the seminary told me that he kept coming to LT Mass because he saw passion and sincerity in those there, where he couldn’t see it anywhere else. I have had MANY teens go to BOTH masses…one with their families in the morning, and then to LifeTeen. The fact that a family goes to 2 different masses due to schedule or preferences is not divisive.

Please dont’ forget that humans are emotional people, and by there mere fact that the Mass has music (which has emotional elements to it) proves the fact that our Church regards that as an important part of our worship. Of course it should not be based on it, nor the major part of it, just an element. Perhaps your particular LT parish is not carrying out the mission very well.
 
agapewolf said:
I think you missed my point. I’m talking about if BOTH of you wanted to sing. Your 11 year old at the early mass and parent at the later one. BOTH…same reasoning as your teen wanting to go to a different mass because it feeds him (or whatever reason). Well, we adults don’t like to sing in the choir, so that’s not been an issue.

Music minstry should NOT be an open call EVER. My adult choir is not an open call…just as you would not put a person with severe arthritis unable to be stable with the Eucharist as an EMHC, you should not put someone who is tone deaf as a music minister. My music ministers at my parish have to be able to sing on key. ALL of my groups are elite. (note…I did not say elitist), but elite. They are exceptional because the Lord deserves the best. Sorry about that. He who sings prays twice. A choir is not an entertainment forum. If someone truly loves to sing, but isn’t that good, should be allowed to join the choir anyway! The pure JOY they have in singing in infectious. I disagree with your “elite” mentality. That is exclusionary. I glad I don’t go to your parish!

The style of music at Lifeteen mass is not a group choir style.
THere are not unlimited parts to fill. It is usually done with one to a part (2 at the most), if you do more, than it is very caustic on the ears. THe microphones should be blended by someone knowledgable only so that it makes the congregation sound like they are singing louder. Yeah, whatever. It becomes a concert. A performance.

I’m glad your family is a church going family… thats fine…the point is though, many aren’t. LifeTeen serves as a first step to getting people back there…if you read my previous posts, you will see my experience with that. It appears that your teen does not need the LT format to progress in his faith. No, he doesn’t. But did you read mine? It makes him angry that he has to choose between family and friends. It does NOT do good things for our family. Many to most do. One of my former teens who is now in the seminary told me that he kept coming to LT Mass because he saw passion and sincerity in those there, where he couldn’t see it anywhere else. I have had MANY teens go to BOTH masses…one with their families in the morning, and then to LifeTeen. The fact that a family goes to 2 different masses due to schedule or preferences is not divisive. AGain, I would disagree. Splitting up the family IS divisive.

I don’t like Life Teen for what it has done to our family.

Please dont’ forget that humans are emotional people, and by there mere fact that the Mass has music (which has emotional elements to it) proves the fact that our Church regards that as an important part of our worship. Of course it should not be based on it, nor the major part of it, just an element. Perhaps your particular LT parish is not carrying out the mission very well.
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No, I don’t think our parish is carrying out any part of the Life Teen very well. I can’t wait for it to leave!
 
Psalm45_9 said:
Lifenite = :yup: :clapping: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif, Life Teen Mass = :eek: :nope: :crying: :banghead: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif

Sorry, we should not be endorsing a Mass for teens. We join on Sunday as a community for worship, the Lifeteen Mass at times seems to have subculture surrounding it. Many of the teens I have engaged with at our parish will not go to another Mass at our church, that defeats the purpose of this form of youth ministry.
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Not every person (teen or otherwise) is at the same place in their faith journey. Perhaps you have spoken with some teens who still taking baby steps? LT mass draws in many people who have fledgling faith or who are returning to the church, but it may not appeal to others (such as yourself) who probably have a solid faith already. It does help some teens in their faith journey to feel the positive support of being at mass with their peers who are also “into” worship rather than making fun of it.

At my parish the majority of our LT folks (teens and parents) are seen at all masses including daily mass. Until you have seen adoration or the early daily mass packed voluntarily with teens, you have not seen all of the fruits that LT can bring. We have teens who are daily communicants while their parents are not. Most times it is our freshmen who are new to LT and to taking ownership of their own faith journey instead of relying on Mom or Dad to make them participate who have trouble integrating back into the overall parish life and other masses. However, I’ve also seen a few older teens who just didn’t “get it” as quickly.

I would like to share a link to our LT page on the parish website so that the OP (and anyone else interested) can see what a comprehensive program can look like after about 10 years of hard work. Maybe someone will see some ideas that can help their program. We have some “lighter” activities that appeal to teens who are still taking baby steps and some things for “going deep” like advanced Bible studies and single sex discussion groups, pilgrimages, monthly service Saturdays, mission trips, retreats and more that reach those at deeper levels. However, it is all centered around the Eucharist, especially in the liturgy.

stannparish.org/fform/formations/9/index.html
 
Ok, well, thank you all very much for taking the time to share your experiences and opinions. I appreciate all the posts.

It seems the consensus is the real fruit of the program lies in the Night Life component, as that centers around a GIRM mass.

Your comments have enabled me to come up with specific questions at our next meeting to help gain a clearer picture of what the original suggestion was.

We have a very strong youth program already in place and I know those directors well but they are so busy I’ve never had the chance to ask them what the program is modelled after. From what I’ve read here I suspect they’re already taking parts of LifeTeen or at least lessons learned from that success story, but I will make an effort to ask them directly soon.

As for LifeTeen being divisive, even without LifeTeen that same conflict arose when our parish started an evening mass on Sundays. Religious Education classes in our parish follow the 9:30am children’s/family mass or the 5:30 Wednesday evening mass. This has helped to get families to attend mass together before the kids go off to their classrooms, but still, more families do not attend than just drop the kids off for class without attending mass first.

Our Youth group, however, meets at 7pm on Sunday evenings. This age group is already naturally separating themselves out from the younger crowd in school and social circles, so accommodating that natural inclination benefits the program by increasing attendance. However, since there was no mass directly before or after the classes we were finding fewer and fewer teens attending mass even during the mornings (they stop joining their families and for some odd reason many families allow the teens that option). So our parish tried out the 6pm mass to go before youth and it has not only been well received by the teens in youth group, but they’re families and friends are joining them.

Our family, and others in the parish, have resolved the conflict by having the one or two teens in the family attend two masses - one with the family, the other on their own. Because our youth program emphasizes the commandments (honor they father/mother), the importance of the family unit,
and graces received through mass/sacrifice, the teens (including mine) are ok with that compromise. They respect their role as a member of the family unit and they appreciate their parents’ respect for their independence with the youth group.
 
I COMPLETELY disagree with the fact that making sure my choir is not tone deaf is exclusionary. I expect music ministry people to SING ON KEY. I see you don’t even understand my example.

We all have different gifts. You cannot give what you don’t have. Hand, eyes, ears…all serve different functions…you don’t expect an eye to hear, and vice versa. This is scriptural. You should NOT HAVE someone who is tone deaf sing in the choir. They can sing in the pews.

And no, my groups are NOT performing, and I will go to the mat for them.

And by the way, the vatican has encouraged having youth oriented masses. I don’t have the citations, but it has.
 
jc-servant said:
but it may not appeal to others (such as yourself) who probably have a solid faith already.
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No, I am a revert, my parents do not go to church. I learned about the faith myself. This Monday I was down in Washington for the march, my parents are pro-choice.
jc-servant; 1849461:
It does help some teens in their faith journey to feel the positive support of being at mass with their peers who are also “into” worship rather than making fun of it.
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Ironically the type of worship Lifeteen offers is what I and my friends made fun of in High School. What drew me in was that Mass was precisely not that. I also do acknowledge that just because it did not work for me does not mean that it does not work for others. But the general consensus that I have seen is that it does more harm then good, it causes severe disunity.

What I find most frustrating is that people automatically seem to assume that because I’m young I’ll fit right into this form of youth ministry and that because I have didn’t experience Lifeteen during my early years then I have yet to experience Christ…
 
agapewolf said:
I COMPLETELY disagree with the fact that making sure my choir is not tone deaf is exclusionary. I expect music ministry people to SING ON KEY. I see you don’t even understand my example.

We all have different gifts. You cannot give what you don’t have. Hand, eyes, ears…all serve different functions…you don’t expect an eye to hear, and vice versa. This is scriptural. You should NOT HAVE someone who is tone deaf sing in the choir. They can sing in the pews.
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If anyone who wants to is allowed to join the choir, then the quality of music drops quickly. Poorly performed music distracts from the Mass. I have been to many Masses that allowed anyone and everyone to join the choir, and the results are dismall. It makes it very difficult to stay focussed on worshipping God when the music is off-key or off-tempo.

People should join the choir because they have the talent, are called by God, and are spiritually mature. People should be lectors because they can rad well in front of other people. It would serve no good purpose to have someone reading teh Word of God who can’t read well. By the same token, it does not serve God well to have people in the choir who are not good at singing.

If I am called elitist for that view, then so be it. As agapewolf pointed out, it is Scriptural, and, therefore, is the Word of God.
 
Michael_Welter said:
If anyone who wants to is allowed to join the choir, then the quality of music drops quickly. Poorly performed music distracts from the Mass. I have been to many Masses that allowed anyone and everyone to join the choir, and the results are dismall. It makes it very difficult to stay focussed on worshipping God when the music is off-key or off-tempo.

People should join the choir because they have the talent, are called by God, and are spiritually mature. People should be lectors because they can rad well in front of other people. It would serve no good purpose to have someone reading teh Word of God who can’t read well. By the same token, it does not serve God well to have people in the choir who are not good at singing.

If I am called elitist for that view, then so be it. As agapewolf pointed out, it is Scriptural, and, therefore, is the Word of God.
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I agree with you about off-key singing being distracting, but I also find it distracting to have people singing who seem more converned with showing off their voices than leading the rest of the congregation in singing. Some singers will purposely stray from the notes for the song to show that they have the ability to sing above and beyond what’s on the page (holding notes longer, adding extra notes and "oh"s, singing a few notes behind everyone else so that their voice will be heard between what everyone else is singing, etc.). This is not only distracting, but it makes it hard for the rest of the congregation to follow. By hand-picking an elite group of singers, I think it creates a risk that they will see singing in the choir as simply a chance to show how much better they sing than the rest of the congregation, thus turning the Mass into a concert.
 
Some people should minister, some should not.

When I choose my music ministers, musical ability is only ONE part of their expectations. Others are attitude, prayerfulness, and example.

Just because someone is a good musician does not make them a diva. Sometimes, and often, a person that is an excellent musician only needs to be taught once how to minister music, and not perform it. Unfortunately, there are those out there who use Mass as a means to show off. They should not be doing that.

I hardly think that choosing less than quality musicians only for the reason that “oh my gosh, if we get REALLY good people, they might show off” is poor logic.
 
agapewolf said:
Some people should minister, some should not.

When I choose my music ministers, musical ability is only ONE part of their expectations. Others are attitude, prayerfulness, and example.

Just because someone is a good musician does not make them a diva. Sometimes, and often, a person that is an excellent musician only needs to be taught once how to minister music, and not perform it. Unfortunately, there are those out there who use Mass as a means to show off. They should not be doing that.

I hardly think that choosing less than quality musicians only for the reason that “oh my gosh, if we get REALLY good people, they might show off” is poor logic.
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I agree that choir members should have at least a basic singing ability, but I don’t think this means that choir members have to be selectively invited to join, as Catholic90 was describing as the situation at his/her parish Lifeteen Masses.

I was pointing out that there is a danger in this opposite extreme, that people who are very good singers will show off that fact. I think that anyone should be able to come and join the choir as long as they have an okay-sounding voice and are on-key. I don’t think exclusive personal invitations are the way to go.
 
For a choir maybe…a lifeteen group, usually a band with a few vocalists require much different training and experience than a choir form.

They have to be able to sing a lead, or hear harmonies on their own, or know how to “pad” a microphone. Much different situation. I cannot have “mediocre” singers with one on a mic.

THAT would be distracting.
 
I’m a Life Teen CORE member. My parish has a very vibrant Life Teen Program. It is centered around the celebration of the Eucharist. We have a Sunday evening LifeTeen Mass. It is a very reverent period of worship. The only instrumental innovations are a guitar, keyboard, and drums. They are used in a most reverent manner.Other than this, the Mass is no different than any offered in the parish. Our Life Nights are wonderful. We have just completed a Bible study entitled T-3. It’s a series of vidoes with an absolutely fantastic instructor. Not only do our young people like it, they have dramatically increased their scriptural knowledge. We have a summer of service activities planned.The kids are what make our program great. They come to Mass and Life Nite because they want to. The Holy Spirit really moves among us.
 
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