Seeking options, frustrated with leadership

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Hi everyone,

The removal of a priest in our parish has caused quite an uproar and led to a long chain of personal frustrations with the hierarchy or organizational Catholic church. You can read about the situation by searching “Gaylord Diocesan Watch” . Basically our priest was suspended after bringing abuse allegations and forcing an investigation of a senior priest in our diocese. In the current climate of the church is easy to see why this is so upsetting.

That situation is hard enough to deal with because I was quite close with the priest, but trying to deal with it has really got me fed up with church leaders and administration. Our Bishop gave zero information to start with and very little at a parish meeting. With that being only after the 400 strong crowd repeatedly demanded more than a canned political response. The Bishop has refused to answer many inquiries about the topic from parishioners including multiple phone calls from me. But that I mean zero response whatsoever.

Since we were getting nowhere I tried to contact priests from near where I grew up to get their opinion. Both were on leave or resigned after investigations into financial irregularities. I then contacted a priest my mother had grown up with, he had just finished a leave for some personal issues. He was unable to give much guidance as to what I could do about the situation. At this point I am really wondering what is going on with Catholic priests.

In searching out whether there was anything to be done or whether we have any recourse to the Bishop I have also contacted the USCCB, the Apostolic Nuncio, and the office of the holy father himself. It has been over a month and I have not received any type of reply from anyone.

My faith in Jesus well never be shaken but I am currently losing faith in the people administrating his church on earth. I have not considered leaving the Catholic faith, but I do want to make the church better and stronger. I would greatly appreciate ideas from anyone on how to address the situation with the bishop, get a response from other church offices, or in general make Catholic leaders accountable and better shepards.

Thank you for your time in reading this and God bless.
 
The Diocese of Gaylord put out a statement which says in part,
Bishop Raica’s decision was NOT based on [the priest’s] allegations. The bishop’s administrative decision involves what should be private and confidential issues between a bishop and one of his priests.
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I can’t think of anything that you could do. If this statement is the truth, then pushing the matter wouldn’t be right.
 
Bk50 said:
In searching out whether there was anything to be done or whether we have any recourse to the Bishop
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If this priest was not the pastor, no you do not have “recourse”. They serve at the discretion of the bishop and go where he sends them.

If he is the pastor he has rights under canon law and he (not you) has “recourse” should he choose to exercise it.

I’m sorry you are upset this priest was removed, and it may have been imprudent on the part of your bishop. But, no, the USCCB, papal nuncio, etc, do not have jurisdiction here and aren’t going to get involved.
 
I googled this, read about 4 articles and i am horrified by it. The priest that was removed did as he was told to do by the diocese: report any wrongdoing. He did that and he is the one sent away.

This is the kind of story that makes people angry because the bishops do nothing to make things right. They just remove the complaintant and protect the wrongdoer all while telling parishioners they are doing everything they can. It’s hypocritical and wrong.

So what we are hearing here now is that there is nothing that can be done?
 
Irishmom2 said:
The priest that was removed did as he was told to do by the diocese: report any wrongdoing. He did that and he is the one sent away.
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No.

Read the statement on the diocesan website. He was not removed because of his report regarding sexual abuse.
Irishmom2 said:
They just remove the complaintant and protect the wrongdoer all while telling parishioners they are doing everything they can. It’s hypocritical and wrong.
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This is also incorrect. Read the statement on the diocesan website.

The priest was encouraged to report to police when he filed his complaint. I don’t think he did that.

An independent review board did not find the complaint credible. The diocese followed their procedures. There was no “protecting” of a “wrongdoer”.
 
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I admit I am one of the many people shaken by poor leadership in the church, deeply. I have had my own personal issues and seen great injustice done at the hands of church leadership.

In the end, though, the choice is simple. I don’t follow the leadership, the bishop, or the Pope. I follow Jesus. His Holy Church is so much more than the administrative and teaching team. The leadership has seen gross abuses in the past, and will see many more in the future. Not all of the leadership is corrupt, but it sure hurts like crazy when you encounter those who are. I admit I don’t know enough about the situation to say what is really going on there.

The truth is the Church is all of us, joined together to be the Body of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. The saints, apostles, you, me, all of us are one in this. It’s a complex issue, even the corrupt or those making bad calls may be going through a dark season and we have to pray for them. In my situation, in my area, and my diocese, I equate it to the Jewish people in exile. The Eucharist is still valid because of the Church (us!) and it’s all we need. I decided in the end to be faithful no matter what, and just back off as much as I can to preserve my sanity amidst the chaos around me. I am just focusing on my family and close friends from church who are good people, and showing Christ to them.
 
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It’s examples like this one where you must search your soul and determine why you are Catholic and why you remain in the Church. If you are Catholic and remain in the Church, not just your parish since you can worship in any parish you wish to, simply because you like the priest, that’s the wrong reason.

The right reason plain and simple is Jesus, our Lord, our Savior and the Founder of the Catholic Church.
 
This thread seems inappropriate at this point. Basically the thread is about an internal diocesan situation, details of which the parties on this site are not privy to.

Speculation and accusations of the diocese being the “fox in the hen house” and other nefarious accusations are WRONG.

We should not be talking about specific priests and bishops on this forum who are unable to defend themselves or share confidential personnel situations. It’s wrong to do so.
 
An awful lot of what goes on between a Bishop and his priests is private. You will never know.
I am not Catholic because of who is pope or my bishop or the pastor of my parish. I am Catholic because of the Eucharist and because Jesus said upon this rock I build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.
We have had Bishops and pastors I loved and others I have not gotten along with at all. Remember the validity of the Eucharist does not depend on the holiness of the celebrant. Pray for your diocese and all the ordained. That is the most effective thing a layperson can do.
 
Being a Protestant and seeing the mess that often involved church leadership really disabused me of the idea that I could EVER base my faith and religious practice on any sinful human being. This is the biggest contributing factor in my conversion.

I’m becoming Catholic because Christ in all his wisdom and power established this church and said the gates of hell would not prevail. I trust and believe my God.
 
I read that page and I have to say I agree with 1ke. The priest in this situation is 30 years old and should be able to comply with confidentiality agreements in a legal proceeding. I would think that he would also have the resources and wherewithal, at age 30, to remove himself from any situations that he found to be unsafe or distasteful. He’s not some young 20-year-old kid, he is a grown man. It doesn’t sound like he was revealing info to save children from immediate danger or whatever. I am also uncomfortable with us being asked to basically believe one side of the story that’s being presented to us here.
 
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Guys I’m not asking you to believe anything. I also didn’t ask anybody to weigh in on whether they think the priest was right or wrong. I’m saying a complete refusal to respond from multiple levels in the church is a failure of leadership. Maybe not everyone agrees with that and that’s ok. What I am asking is how I as a lay Catholic can help make the leadership of our church better. I am right on the edge of the diocese so it wouldn’t be hard to go outside the diocese to worship. A previous post said it, WE are the church. I don’t think that means we have to blindly accept whatever comes down from clergy and I think it does give us a responsibility to set examples and help our church be what it needs to be. You all have the right to point out everywhere I’m wrong on this but I welcome any positive ideas on how lay Catholics can improve our church.
 
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Bk50 said:
What I am asking is how I as a lay Catholic can help make the leadership of our church better.
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I would say just being involved in your church, doing the mundane things that need doing, and being responsible yourself, like if you personally see anything untoward going on, report it to the Church authorities and if it’s a crime, to the police.

I would also say, avoiding this kind of drama situation that is beyond the control of the parishioners and seems to have gotten totally out of hand with some crusader deciding to make a website about it.

I see lay Catholics quietly improving the Church every day by giving of their time and talents, or even just being nice to other people they see for an hour or two a week at Masses. Little things mean a lot. They’re doing a lot more for the Church than the ones yelling really loud and wanting to impeach the bishop.
 
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Bk50 said:
I’m saying a complete refusal to respond from multiple levels in the church is a failure of leadership.
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It’s a personnel matter. What part of confidential is not clear to you?

The bishop did respond. You just don’t like the response.
 
Here’s an analogy – say you accuse someone in your office of embezzling. They proceed as required with the embezzlement investigation.

Meanwhile, they discover that you have, say, violated office protocol in the handling of certain documents. So you are disciplined for that. But it’s not a legal issue, it’s an internal personnel violation.

If you were to go to the press and tell them you were disciplined for reporting the embezzler, would you expect them to violate personnel confidentiality by divulging what you had, in fact, been disciplined for?
 
Ok so for the third time I’m not talking about whether the Bishop gave an answer to why the priest was removed. He did. It was because the priest told somebody outside the church hierarchy about his allegations. This is not hearsay or conjecture, this is from the bishop’s mouth.

My problem with the handling is that after this decision over a dozen people, including me, tried to contact the bishop and got no response. Not even a “this decision is final” just absolutely nothing. The same from the other organizations I mentioned. Absolutely zero response. I don’t expect that a call from me is going to change anyone’s mind but it’s common courtesy to respond in some way to an inquiry.
 
There is a legal proceeding going on, as well as an internal personnel matter. It’s very likely the bishop has legal constraints on speaking with any of you.

Your priest did something that from a legal standpoint, he wasn’t supposed to do (violated confidentiality). It no doubt made a mess. Your bishop doesn’t want to make things any worse by doing things that, from a legal standpoint, he isn’t supposed to do.

Unfortunately, this is a personnel matter and you have no entitlement to an answer from your bishop. I don’t see why you can’t accept that and move on.
 
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We obviously have very different views on what we want the church to be. Why in the world would I not feel entitled to a bishop acknowledging that I asked a question or tried to get in contact with him? Or at least his secretary. I’m not going to accept that. I don’t think an appointment as a Bishop comes with absolution if accountability.
 
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