Selecting a new pastor

[praestat_fides]

A few months ago, my pastor of 25 years retired. A few weeks after he left, the bishop appointed a new pastor to take over our church. My question is this: how much say do the lay members have in regards to who the bishop sends to be the pastor (or even just a curate) to a particular church? Is there a lay committee to assist the bishop? I know that in many Protestant and Jewish traditions, several candidates are interviewed by a lay committee and the candidates must lead services at the church/synagogue to get to know the congregation. Then that lay committee considers all the candidates, talks to the congregation about how they feel, and makes a final decision as to who gets the job. How does it work in Catholicism?

 

[MatthewTrainor]

how much say do the lay members have in regards to who the bishop sends to be the pastor (or even just a curate) to a particular church?

Short answer: as much say as the Bishop in question chooses to give them. I remember how shocked I was when I first learned about the “interview” process in other churches. What people in the US tend to forget is that the Catholic Church was never a democracy. The power to loose and to bind was given to the Apostles (Bishops), it is the rest of us who are ‘loosed’ or ‘bound’ by those decisions.

 

[DavidFilmer]

The laity have no canonical influence over the selection of their Pastors. They are free to make their preferences known to their Bishop, but the Bishop is not obligated by them.

Bishops might be more inclined to accept the advice of the outgoing Pastor and other priests. My brother is a priest and he was reassigned a couple of years back. He advised his Bishop that it might be a good idea that his replacement have better Spanish skills, as this Parish includes a significant Spanish presence, which my brother found challenging to minister to. And, indeed, the new Pastor speaks Spanish well.

 

[pianistclare]

In my experience? The Archbishop or Bishop makes his decision with (name removed by moderator)ut from the Vicar for Clergy at the Chancery. They well know the personalities and gifts of the men involved.
A parish can “hope” for a certain type of Pastor, but it’s the Bishop’s call.
And some priests DO request to not go to a particular place, if there are historical problems. Again, it’s the Bishops call to grant or deny those requests.

As a wise preschool teacher once said: “You get what you get, and you don’t pitch a fit”.

 

[pianistclare]

The laity have no canonical influence over the selection of their Pastors. They are free to make their preferences known to their Bishop, but the Bishop is not obligated by them.

Bishops might be more inclined to accept the advice of the outgoing Pastor and other priests. My brother is a priest and he was reassigned a couple of years back. He advised his Bishop that it might be a good idea that his replacement have better Spanish skills, as this Parish includes a significant Spanish presence, which my brother found challenging to minister to. And, indeed, the new Pastor speaks Spanish well.

The Bishop also seeks a person to remedy any issues. For example, if there are financial problems, he might send in a guy who is very business savvy and able to put them back in the black. Believe it or not, a lot of thought goes into the assignments.

 

[Casilda]

Just be lucky you did not have to wait years for a new pastor. In our diocese they also get moved around on the average, every two years. Lucky parishes may have a priest for as long as five years. Unlucky parishes have either no permanent priest or one that officiates more than one parish.

 

[TheDoctor]

And just to round things out, since we are comparing with our Protestant brothers and sisters: Laity have just as much, and may times even less, say in when a Pastor is relieved. Unlike a community where the pastor serves at the pleasure of the elders or the congregation, the Catholic Pastor serves at the pleasure of their Bishop (or their Superior if an order priest) who alone makes the decision as to when a priest leaves a parish.

 

[Gorgias]

Unlike a community where the pastor serves at the pleasure of the elders or the congregation, the Catholic Pastor serves at the pleasure of their Bishop (or their Superior if an order priest) who alone makes the decision as to when a priest leaves a parish.

Keep in mind that this is precisely the ecclesiology of the Church – which might differ from the ecclesiology of a non-denominational Christian community or even a local church of a Protestant denomination!

In the Catholic Church, the bishop is the pastor of his entire diocese. Inasmuch as he cannot be at all places every day, he appoints a priest as the pastor of a parish. That means that the pastor is the representative of the bishop, not of the particular parish community. So, the bishop picks someone (among the available priests at hand – and I don’t have to mention that priests aren’t just sitting around idle, waiting to be given a job, right? ) to represent him to the community. Not the other way 'round – the pastor isn’t the representative of the community to the Church (or diocese) at large.

So, a Catholic priest – who has promised obedience to his bishop, in order to assist in his bishop’s ministry – comes to a parish as its pastor, not at the beckoning of the parish, but from the bishop himself. That’s significantly different than how Protestant congregations receive their ministers.

 

[Joannm]

Win our diocese when it comes time to select a new pastor, one of our auxilary bishops comes to the parish and meets with a group of parishioners to get (name removed by moderator)ut on what they are looking for in a pastor. This helps the bishop in choosing a new pastor.

 

[Sunbreak]

Generally speaking, the archbishop makes the decision. It’s not like there is a round table discussion with the parish. Of course, he would take into consideration the character of the parish and what kind of issues have been at the parish when deciding who to place there.

 

[Usige]

One other thing to keep in mind is the (arch)bishop may actually choose a pastor the laity do not want if he is attempting to resolve any problems. I know a parish with a very liberal bent that received a new pastor that was very traditional. The parishioners tended to think of themselves as the community of XYZ parish first and Catholic second. The bishop intentionally placed a pastor that focused on them being Catholic first and foremost. Once the old parish council resigned because the pastor was messing up “their parish” a new council was erected that included a better mix, but that understood the pastor represented the bishop and not their wants.

I think too many people forget or never understood that the Church is a top down hierarchical organization, not a bottom up, grassroots democracy. Yes a bishop might select a different pastor if there are problems that the laity raise, but the laity should not expect that they will get to interview and select or reject the pastor based on what they feel is the best for their parish. Sometimes the best thing for the parish is the one that makes them the most uncomfortable for a time.

 

[praestat_fides]

I think too many people forget or never understood that the Church is a top down hierarchical organization, not a bottom up, grassroots democracy.

Whenever I tell this to very devout Catholics, they become enraged!

 

[dans0622]

… My question is this: how much say do the lay members have in regards to who the bishop sends to be the pastor (or even just a curate) to a particular church? Is there a lay committee to assist the bishop? … How does it work in Catholicism?

Hello,

As other have said or suggested, it depends on the bishop. I have never heard of a “lay committee” being used for this purpose but there is nothing inherently wrong with the idea. It seems prudent, to me, for a bishop to see what trusted people in the pew think about priests before he appoints them to positions of authority. He wouldn’t have to do that personally–he could have the vicar forane do it, or other priests. But, personal contact is also good. The Code of Canon Law states:

Can. 524 A diocesan bishop is to entrust a vacant parish to the one whom he considers suited to fulfill its parochial care, after weighing all the circumstances and without any favoritism. To make a judgment about suitability, he is to hear the vicar forane and conduct appropriate investigations, having heard certain presbyters and lay members of the Christian faithful, if it is warranted.

Dan

 

[dconklin]

Unless…

Many (most?) dioceses have agreements with religious orders to staff a few parishes. Our parish is staffed by Jesuits - as is another about 20 miles away. In our case, the order makes all staffing decisions. Our pastor has been here for going on 10 years.

With that said, we do not have a say in staffing either.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

And just to round things out, since we are comparing with our Protestant brothers and sisters: Laity have just as much, and may times even less, say in when a Pastor is relieved. Unlike a community where the pastor serves at the pleasure of the elders or the congregation, the Catholic Pastor serves at the pleasure of their Bishop (or their Superior if an order priest) who alone makes the decision as to when a priest leaves a parish.

Non-Catholic communities vary in how they call their clergy. Anglicans have lay committees in the parish who do searches for new rectors, but bottom line, it is the Bishop’s yea or nay that puts a new priest in the parish.

Methodists have placements by their Bishop.

It all depends on the church.

 

[commenter]

One other thing to keep in mind is the (arch)bishop may actually choose a pastor the laity do not want if he is attempting to resolve any problems. I know a parish with a very liberal bent that received a new pastor that was very traditional. The parishioners tended to think of themselves as the community of XYZ parish first and Catholic second. The bishop intentionally placed a pastor that focused on them being Catholic first and foremost. Once the old parish council resigned because the pastor was messing up “their parish” a new council was erected that included a better mix, but that understood the pastor represented the bishop and not their wants.

I think too many people forget or never understood that the Church is a top down hierarchical organization, not a bottom up, grassroots democracy. Yes a bishop might select a different pastor if there are problems that the laity raise, but the laity should not expect that they will get to interview and select or reject the pastor based on what they feel is the best for their parish. Sometimes the best thing for the parish is the one that makes them the most uncomfortable for a time.

The other posts present the Church’s position, the above post gives some of the logic behind the Church’s position. The kind of pastor a parish needs might not be the pastor they think they want. Furthermore, how do you know what kind of pastor they think they need? Usually there’s a tiny group of very prominent laity, but how do you know their views are representative of the parish as a whole?

Pastor’s are supposed to call their people to conversion, not make them comfortable. If a parish is real gung ho on one aspect of Christianity, maybe the best pastor is the one who emphasizes things they don’t know much about. The problem is that people don’t know what they don’t know. Ideally, a new pastor exposes them to forgotten truths.

 

[Phemie]

Unless…

Many (most?) dioceses have agreements with religious orders to staff a few parishes. Our parish is staffed by Jesuits - as is another about 20 miles away. In our case, the order makes all staffing decisions. Our pastor has been here for going on 10 years.

With that said, we do not have a say in staffing either.

It was the same in our parish for over 50 years. Our priests and brothers were all OMI. That ended three years ago when not one OMI from that Province was willing to come. To be fair to them, they had very few youngish priests, and ours is not an easy area to come to. We now have our first diocesan priest and it’s been quite an adjustment for some on parish & particularly on finance councils to get used to.

 

[Duane1966]

Whenever I tell this to very devout Catholics, they become enraged!

Depends on your definition of devout. I know many devout Catholics who take the exact opposite view of your devout Catholics.

 

[otjm]

Depends on your definition of devout. I know many devout Catholics who take the exact opposite view of your devout Catholics.

I don’t think it is necessary to question what the word “devout” means. One can go regularly to confession, attend Mass faithfully, be involved in charitable works and say the rosary daily, and still think that parishioners should have a significant say in who their next pastor will be.

People have many strange ideas, and yet still try to live an authentic Catholic life. Anyone over the age of 30 has most likely been subjected to the various streams of thought coming from our very mixed bag of theologians, as well as some of the allegedly Catholic periodicals. That does not mean that they are not wrong on some matters, but in charity, one needs to understand that most people over 30 have been subjected to a raft of commentary over the last 50 years, and some of it is going to stick to devout people.

And some of it has been excellent; some mediocre, some vapid, and some heretical. Not everyone has the privilege of having much training in the Faith. And not everyone has had someone to explain to them, in charity, where they may be incorrect. Something such as a change of pastors may be an issue that many people have never had any experience with. Using that issue as a litmus test as to their devotion to Christ and the Church is, to put it politely, skewed.