Self-Cause or Loop

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We all decide and we all ask ourselves where do they come from. Are they really a self-cause act created by mind or the result of process inside loops in a brain. The existence of loops guarantees some sort of feed back, such as decision, in the brain. So how possibly could we understand the truth?
 
The concepts of true and false come from God, not from material nature.
 
We all decide and we all ask ourselves where do they come from. Are they really a self-cause act created by mind or the result of process inside loops in a brain. The existence of loops guarantees some sort of feed back, such as decision, in the brain. So how possibly could we understand the truth?
I don’t think that decisions are solely a product of the brain via feedback loops or whichever brain component you bring up, because we also make decisions based on (name removed by moderator)ut from the environment which is outside the brain. As we learn new things, new wiring occurs so I think this alone not only shows that more than the brain is involved but also that pre-existing wiring does not necessarily have the same degree of effects on a person’s decision throughout a person’s lifetime. It’s also important to keep in mind that this process (changing brain wiring, etc) is not always passive but can be directed by the PERSON (hence the term, self-directed neuroplasticity!!!.. did you forget about these studies already?!!) We can direct the process by using our mind to control the type of data we let in, how we process it (whether we allow it to affect us or not via reinforcement, etc.), we can even control our environment to an extent, we can even use imagined situations - all of this is part of ‘cognitive behavioral therapy’.
 
I just saw this today. What is your point exactly? :confused:
My Point is we are internally aware that we decide. The question is whether these questions are the result of loops in our brains or they are self-caused by something like soul . In first case, our decision is the result of our experiences which leads to loops or feedback. In the second case we have control on our decisions, we can make decision irrespective of our past experiences or circumstances. Needless to say that I don’t understand what is point of the second one. To me it is very reasonable that we decide based on our old experiences in spite of the fact that we become a machine analyzing a situation.
 
I don’t think that decisions are solely a product of the brain via feedback loops or whichever brain component you bring up, because we also make decisions based on (name removed by moderator)ut from the environment which is outside the brain. As we learn new things, new wiring occurs so I think this alone not only shows that more than the brain is involved but also that pre-existing wiring does not necessarily have the same degree of effects on a person’s decision throughout a person’s lifetime.
I agree with what you said up to here.
It’s also important to keep in mind that this process (changing brain wiring, etc) is not always passive but can be directed by the PERSON (hence the term, self-directed neuroplasticity!!!.. did you forget about these studies already?!!) We can direct the process by using our mind to control the type of data we let in, how we process it (whether we allow it to affect us or not via reinforcement, etc.), we can even control our environment to an extent, we can even use imagined situations - all of this is part of ‘cognitive behavioral therapy’.
I don’t understand what mind is in a monistic view since it allows the possibility of self-caused act which I cannot understand it in materialism view. Do you have a way to explain it?
 
You asked “So how possibly could we understand the truth?”

Do you agree or disagree with what I said?
I see. But to the best of my knowledge God didn’t address brain and it functioning in His teaching. Moreover I am not a believer.
 
I see. But to the best of my knowledge God didn’t address brain and it functioning in His teaching. Moreover I am not a believer.
So, you believe the first principles of reasoning come from material nature.
Please explain when and through what mechanisms that occurred.
 
So, you believe the first principles of reasoning come from material nature.
Please explain when and through what mechanisms that occurred.
Yes, were else it could come from? We even know different parts of brain which responsible for reasoning. You can google it itself. Here is what you might be interested at.
 
Are you saying there is a material part of the brain for every thought, and the thoughts connect vis the chemical reactions? I don’t think the brain works that way
 
Are you saying there is a material part of the brain for every thought, and the thoughts connect vis the chemical reactions? I don’t think the brain works that way
I am saying what we call decision could be a simple feedback which is the result of loops in our brain.

I think thought is the result of neurobiological activities in the brain too.
 
I think thought is the result of neurobiological activities in the brain too.
You haven’t even gotten started and you’re already positing intelligent, rational being.

No, you have to start at the beginning. We won’t concede anything to your worldview because you are starting with nothing.

Why is there something at all?
Why is whatever you claim existed, ordered by laws and not simply chaos?
Show me how blind, unintelligent matter can create laws that govern itself.

That should take you a while.

Then you need to show life coming from non-life.
You need to show how the complexity of the first cell and DNA coding arose from a blind, non-intelligent source.

From, that - when did the concept of true versus false first evolve? Why is that concept universal. Which rational beings did not possess that concept before evolution created it. What is the mutational, selection pathway from non-existence of true and false, to its eventual existence? Where in the fossil record can we see a human population that could not recognize that first principle?

Then, where in the brain is this information stored? How, precisely, does the brain generate ideas and first principles?

You’ve got a lot of work to do before you start asking more questions, in my opinion.
 
You haven’t even gotten started and you’re already positing intelligent, rational being.

No, you have to start at the beginning. We won’t concede anything to your worldview because you are starting with nothing.

Why is there something at all?
Existence is the default. I have a proof for that.
Why is whatever you claim existed, ordered by laws and not simply chaos?

That should take you a while.
The fabric of universe must be intelligent and heading somewhere, finding the meaning and the truth, otherwise we couldn’t be here.
Show me how blind, unintelligent matter can create laws that govern itself.
Matter in average follows what we call laws of nature. I don’t think if matter is unintelligent and unconscious. I have an argument that shows that matter is conscious.
Then you need to show life coming from non-life.
You need to show how the complexity of the first cell and DNA coding arose from a blind, non-intelligent source.
I think I answered that in the first comment.
From, that - when did the concept of true versus false first evolve? Why is that concept universal. Which rational beings did not possess that concept before evolution created it. What is the mutational, selection pathway from non-existence of true and false, to its eventual existence? Where in the fossil record can we see a human population that could not recognize that first principle?
I think I answered that in the first comment.
Then, where in the brain is this information stored? How, precisely, does the brain generate ideas and first principles?
I think I answered that in the first comment.
You’ve got a lot of work to do before you start asking more questions, in my opinion.
It was easy in fact. Some of the things that you have asked is subject of cognitive science others biology etc. You can google them yourself. 🙂
 
Existence is the default. I have a proof for that.
You haven’t explained it or proved it.
The fabric of universe must be intelligent and heading somewhere, finding the meaning and the truth, otherwise we couldn’t be here.
You haven’t explained it or proved this.
Matter in average follows what we call laws of nature. I don’t think if matter is unintelligent and unconscious. I have an argument that shows that matter is conscious.
You haven’t proven that matter is conscious.

It appears that you don’t want to engage in the arguments.
 
You haven’t explained it or proved it.
We already discuss that. Time cannot be instigated at the same time be a variable of the theory which explain the beginning. Therefore the act of creation is impossible. I have a thread on this in here.
You haven’t explained it or proved this.
Well, photon decides. You can read more about it here.
You haven’t proven that matter is conscious.
Dualism is false. Form cannot give rise to consciousness. Therefore matter should be conscious. I have a thread on this in here.
 
I don’t understand what mind is in a monistic view since it allows the possibility of self-caused act which I cannot understand it in materialism view. Do you have a way to explain it?
When you say “self-caused”, are you saying that’s how free-will would have to work? If you’re referencing free-will or how it would work, I’m not certain of that myself. What I explained in my previous post does not involve self-causation but if anything it involves manipulating the factors (environment, biology) that makes us who we are. Eventhough we play in active role in determining who we are using our minds (via cognitive behavioral therapy), you still have to do it using environment and biology and that’s why I believe determinism and/or materialism is still involved. If there’s anything coming close to free-will in my view it would probably be that the person is playing an active role in shaping who they are, and it’s an indirect process, in part, since the person is using biology (when neuroplasticity changes happen) and not just mind to bring it about.
 
When you say “self-caused”, are you saying that’s how free-will would have to work? If you’re referencing free-will or how it would work, I’m not certain of that myself. What I explained in my previous post does not involve self-causation but if anything it involves manipulating the factors (environment, biology) that makes us who we are. Eventhough we play in active role in determining who we are using our minds (via cognitive behavioral therapy), you still have to do it using environment and biology and that’s why I believe determinism and/or materialism is** still involved.** If there’s anything coming close to free-will in my view it would probably be that the person is playing an active role in shaping who they are, and it’s an indirect process, in part, since the person is using biology (when neuroplasticity changes happen) and not just mind to bring it about.
I should specify that my view involves materialism in that biology and environment play a role. It however, is not limited to traditional determinism since I believe causation goes both ways, that is top-down (mental causation on the brain) and not just bottom-up (causation starting at the fundamental level and progressing from there). There is scientific evidence for both types of causation.
 
I see. But to the best of my knowledge God didn’t address brain and it functioning in His teaching. Moreover I am not a believer.
Sure he does. He only hold us accountable for what we can understand. There are many people in the bible who God makes accountable.

Like when they tried to trick him, he told them how they were evil and devils.

God knows a heart. Your heart is indeed your brain functioning.
 
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