Self-Esteem vs. Pride - Where to Draw the Line?

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I was really depressed for a few years and I’ve just recently gotten over it through the use of antidepressants (specifically St. John’s Wort). I don’t want to get into the ethics of antidepressants debate - that’s a very interesting question, certainly, but in this thread I’m curious about something else.

When I was depressed I seriously hated myself, and I mistook this for a good thing. I thought, “yeah sure I might be miserable but at least I’m not prideful!” Of course those thoughts of self-contempt were really very damaging and led me close to suicide. Now that I have mostly cured my depression, though, my self-esteem has improved a lot. I look in the mirror and actually think “hey I look pretty good today!”, or I write a paper and think “I did a good job on this”, or whatever.

Where should we draw the line? When does Self-Esteem become Pride? I mean it’s pretty obvious when I’m fully in the territory of Pride - that’s when I think that I’m better than someone else - but what about more “grey-area” things. Should we compliment ourselves when we do a good work, even though all good works come from God alone? Should we ever consider ourselves to be physically attractive, or can we do it without being Vain?

Thanks, and before anyone accuses me of being a hypocrite, yes I’m going to talk to my priest about this and will report back with his response 😉
 
This is a question I have asked myself too.

I asked a priest once if it was ok to feel good about having learned a language well and if it was ok to also want to show this to other people. He said it was ok. I asked him where it would become pride. He said when it involved some sort of condescendence, looking down on others…

Kathrin

p.s. I am also taking an antidepressant. But for OCD. For a long time now. I remember in the beginning I was very worried about it.

p.s. Maybe a sign that it is a good feeling is when you can use it to bring joy to others. For example: Today I feel good about myself, so I smile at those around me, say hello to a lonely person in the street, etc.
 
Good question! I don’t know exactly where to draw the line, but I think these are some red flags:
  • We start to feel as if we don’t need God, we don’t owe anything to God, etc.
  • We become impatient with people who don’t grasp things as quickly as we do, don’t drive as well as we do, etc.
  • We make uncharitable comments about others’ abilities.
  • We worry that associating with “lesser” folks will reflect badly on us.
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John92 said:
I was really depressed for a few years and I’ve just recently gotten over it through the use of antidepressants (specifically St. John’s Wort). I don’t want to get into the ethics of antidepressants debate - that’s a very interesting question, certainly, but in this thread I’m curious about something else.

When I was depressed I seriously hated myself, and I mistook this for a good thing. I thought, “yeah sure I might be miserable but at least I’m not prideful!” Of course those thoughts of self-contempt were really very damaging and led me close to suicide. Now that I have mostly cured my depression, though, my self-esteem has improved a lot. I look in the mirror and actually think “hey I look pretty good today!”, or I write a paper and think “I did a good job on this”, or whatever.

Where should we draw the line? When does Self-Esteem become Pride? I mean it’s pretty obvious when I’m fully in the territory of Pride - that’s when I think that I’m better than someone else - but what about more “grey-area” things. Should we compliment ourselves when we do a good work, even though all good works come from God alone? Should we ever consider ourselves to be physically attractive, or can we do it without being Vain?

Thanks, and before anyone accuses me of being a hypocrite, yes I’m going to talk to my priest about this and will report back with his response 😉
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I think the kind of pride that is a sin is more thinking that you are holier than others, more deserving of Heaven than others, that others are dirty sinners. Or when you hate the success and talents of others, because you want to be better than them.

Simply thinking you are better than others is not pride in my opinion if it’s justified. If for example you have a talent for music, it’s not pride to think that you’re better than others, it’s simply acknowledging a truth.

Similarly if you work hard and do really well at something and the next person doesn’t, it’s not pride to be happy with your peformance and to acknowledge that you’re better than person who didn’t do a good job.

And some people are exceptionally good looking, it’s not pride to acknowledge that (even about yourself).

Pretending that no one is better than anyone else at anything isn’t humility, it’s a denial of facts.

The problem is maybe when you feel really angry, jealous, or envious of someone who is better than you. When you don’t want others to enjoy success if it means they will be better than you. Things like that.

If you’re just coming out of a place where you had no self esteem and wantd to kill yourself, my guess is that pride is the last thing you have to worry about.
 
flyingfish said:
If you’re just coming out of a place where you had no self esteem and wantd to kill yourself, my guess is that pride is the last thing you have to worry about.
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I don’t think there’s a better way to sum the situation up, and I think worrying about falling into the sin of pride, especially after coming out of such a situation could be a sign of scrupulosity.

That said, as long as you’re not thinking you’re a candidate for canonization or looking down on others or worrying what others will think if you associate with certain sorts of people, I don’t think you have a problem.
 
Alright, thank you all for the kind responses 🙂

I agree about not denying it when you do a good job or are objectively better at something than someone else. For example, I have a talent for language, I can learn them quickly and am very good at remembering words and paradigms and principal parts and all that. No use in denying it, because that’s just false modesty, which is more dangerous because then you can cover up a real pride instead of dealing with it.

I guess the trick is to acknowledge both those things that we are good at and those we are not, and to avoid either being jealous of someone who is better than us at something, or thinking that because we’re better at something or whatever that we’re actually better as a person, and starting to look down on people. As human beings living after the sin of our first parents, we’re all equally evil 😛

Thanks for the advice on scrupulosity, it’s a problem for me and the reminders about it are very helpful.
 
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