Self esteem vs true esteem

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Have a high esteem towards LOVE and God, but avoid self-esteem like a plague. Mainstream psychology teaches that self-esteem is ‘healthy’ but rise above it to true esteem and you will see that it is as nothing. Self-esteem was seen in psychology as the cure to neurosis, and the job of ‘successful’ psychologists was to build self-esteem in such patients. The problem was that they ignored the underlying causes to neurosis, and patients would always lose their self-esteem time and time again and psychologists would need to constantly rebuild it consequentially. Again, self-esteem is falsely attributed to mental health, and there is no need for it in psychology if you have genuine esteem and true humility.

Be leery of the self.

We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
-Romans 6:6
 
If only we were completely dead to self, and free from inner conflict, we could savour spiritual things, and win experience of heavenly contemplation.
-The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 11
 
The basic principle here - for the Christian - is to
  1. Love God above all else…
  2. Love neighbor as you love yourself.
Esteem - or valuing someone or something highly is an essential part of the above - and this includes valuing (esteeming) one’s self…for how can we love our neighbor as God commands if we do not first properly love (have esteem for) ourselves
The trick is (ISTM) is to place these things in their proper order and perspective…
Love of God and Love of neighbor involves service to each…for Jesus Himself says that the greatest is the one who serves the others…
So our esteem is not in how important we are, but rather in how well we serve God (first) and neighbor…

Without this proper recognition one risks falling into self hate and despair.

Just some thoughts…

Peace
James
 
Robert_Sock said:
Have a high esteem towards LOVE and God, but avoid self-esteem like a plague. Mainstream psychology teaches that self-esteem is ‘healthy’ but rise above it to true esteem and you will see that it is as nothing. Self-esteem was seen in psychology as the cure to neurosis, and the job of ‘successful’ psychologists was to build self-esteem in such patients. The problem was that they ignored the underlying causes to neurosis, and patients would always lose their self-esteem time and time again and psychologists would need to constantly rebuild it consequentially. Again, self-esteem is falsely attributed to mental health, and there is no need for it in psychology if you have genuine esteem and true humility.

Be leery of the self.

We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
-Romans 6:6
Click to expand...
You’ve made some fine points here. Modern psychology is often premised on treating fear–as if fear is the root of every evil. Therefore, (they reason) children who fear their parents are in an unhealthy relationship. Children who are filled with self esteem…even to the oint of being arrogantly self-confident are much healthier than one who fears God…etc. To the modern psychologist…fear is a great evil or…at the very least a weakness.

Therefore, how does Scripture tell us that the Fear of the Lord is eternal…? How could something that is a weakness exist in Heaven. The answer is that modern psychologist have it all wrong. Fear is a tool of our condition…not an evil to be avoided at all cost.

The fear of the Lord means that we respect the power and greatness that is God…just as we would not walk across twelve lanes of freeway traffic (is that “fear”…I do not stay awake worried about cars)…even so…we would honor the force of God eternally.

The Fear of the Lord actually empowers us…just as children are empowered when they know not to touch fire or cross a busy freeway.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Have a high esteem towards LOVE and God, but avoid self-esteem like a plague. Mainstream psychology teaches that self-esteem is ‘healthy’ but rise above it to true esteem and you will see that it is as nothing. Self-esteem was seen in psychology as the cure to neurosis, and the job of ‘successful’ psychologists was to build self-esteem in such patients. The problem was that they ignored the underlying causes to neurosis, and patients would always lose their self-esteem time and time again and psychologists would need to constantly rebuild it consequentially. Again, self-esteem is falsely attributed to mental health, and there is no need for it in psychology if you have genuine esteem and true humility.

Be leery of the self.

We know that our old self was crucified with him so that the sinful body might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
-Romans 6:6
Click to expand...
For myself, the problem with mental health’s focus on self-esteem is that it’s generally pride-based-and pride always involves the a perception of-and an over-concern with-how others view us. So a gang-member can gain esteem by killing another person. Self-love, OTOH is simply a recognition of the beauty inherent in our own souls and natures-the goodness of God’s creation. It looks nowhere outside-in what we do and accomplish-for that goodness-or in order to justify that love. As all sin originates from a good-one that’s been twisted, Aquinas maintained that pride was “inordinate self-love”.
 
JRKH said:
The basic principle here - for the Christian - is to
  1. Love God above all else…
  2. Love neighbor as you love yourself.
Esteem - or valuing someone or something highly is an essential part of the above - and this includes valuing (esteeming) one’s self…for how can we love our neighbor as God commands if we do not first properly love (have esteem for) ourselves
The trick is (ISTM) is to place these things in their proper order and perspective…
Love of God and Love of neighbor involves service to each…for Jesus Himself says that the greatest is the one who serves the others…
So our esteem is not in how important we are, but rather in how well we serve God (first) and neighbor…

Without this proper recognition one risks falling into self hate and despair.

Just some thoughts…

Peace
James
Click to expand...
I have a high esteem towards God and neighbor, and I highly value religious LOVE, but I consider myself dead to self; no self-esteem, no self-hatred and no despair.
 
JRKH said:
Do you love yourself??

Peace
James
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Not sure how to answer that question, but I wholeheartedly despise my self. After killing off my self, all that is left are deep feelings of religious LOVE. Reading your question in a slightly different light, no, I don’t ever remember loving myself. Self-love sounds awfully perverted to me.

PS, check out the following link for a positive definition of self-love (Erich Fromm), and a negative definition (Thomas Aquinas). My above thinking of self-love would correspond more to a definition that included arrogance, conceit and egocentrism. Erich Fromm’s definition seems more in line with positive self-evaluation and heightened self-esteem.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-love
 
Robert_Sock said:
Not sure how to answer that question,
Click to expand...
Robert - there really isn’t anything complicated about the question…Do you love yourself??

Jesus tells us that the second greatest commandment is to love our neighbor as our self - you can find this in Mt 22:36-40. This command is second ONLY to the command to Love God above all else.
HOw can you love neighbor if you don’t love yourself.
but I wholeheartedly despise my self. After killing off my self, all that is left are deep feelings of religious LOVE. Reading your question in a slightly different light, no, I don’t ever remember loving myself. Self-love sounds awfully perverted to me.
Click to expand...
Let ask you this…Does God Love you??
I assume you will answer “yes”…
To which I respond…“If God Loves you - Why do you hate that which God Loves?”

Now - expect that the real problem here is that there are things about your old self that were sinful - things about you that you hated and these are the things that you speak of as “killing off”. By so doing you are better able to become a new you - filled with God’s Love -

But the bottom line here is that our Lord and King Jesus Christ has told us that Love of our neighbor must be the same as love for our self…
So - the thing to do is to determine what is proper self love - not to deny self love altogether…We can learn this proper self love through spiritual reading and prayer and basing all on Love which, of course is the basis for the two great commandments.

That is - unless you want to tell Jesus He was wrong in Mt 22:36-40.
PS, check out the following link for a positive definition of self-love (Erich Fromm), and a negative definition (Thomas Aquinas). My above thinking of self-love would correspond more to a definition that included arrogance, conceit and egocentrism. Erich Fromm’s definition seems more in line with positive self-evaluation and heightened self-esteem.
Click to expand...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-love
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link…I think Fromm pretty well nailed it.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Robert - there really isn’t anything complicated about the question…Do you love yourself??

Jesus tells us that the second greatest commandment is to love our neighbor as our self - you can find this in Mt 22:36-40. This command is second ONLY to the command to Love God above all else.
HOw can you love neighbor if you don’t love yourself.

Let ask you this…Does God Love you??
I assume you will answer “yes”…
To which I respond…“If God Loves you - Why do you hate that which God Loves?”

Now - expect that the real problem here is that there are things about your old self that were sinful - things about you that you hated and these are the things that you speak of as “killing off”. By so doing you are better able to become a new you - filled with God’s Love -

But the bottom line here is that our Lord and King Jesus Christ has told us that Love of our neighbor must be the same as love for our self…
So - the thing to do is to determine what is proper self love - not to deny self love altogether…We can learn this proper self love through spiritual reading and prayer and basing all on Love which, of course is the basis for the two great commandments.

That is - unless you want to tell Jesus He was wrong in Mt 22:36-40.

Thanks for the link…I think Fromm pretty well nailed it.

Peace
James
Click to expand...
I think it comes down to perspectives. Christ was talking to common folks, and so He used common language. Again, I do not think I have any self left in my soul to love; all that is there is LOVE.

Now, try taking Thomas a Kempis’ perspective and tell me what he was thinking when he wrote the following?

*If only we were completely dead to self, and free from inner conflict, we could savour spiritual things, and win experience of heavenly contemplation.
-The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 11 *

Yes, God loves me, but I’m still dead to self. LOVE!!!
 
Robert_Sock said:
I think it comes down to perspectives. Christ was talking to common folks, and so He used common language.
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Well - I am “common folk” so I appreciate common language. How about yourself…are you common folk?
Again, I do not think I have any self left in my soul to love; all that is there is LOVE.
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This I cannot address.
Now, try taking Thomas a Kempis’ perspective and tell me what he was thinking when he wrote the following?
Click to expand...
I cannot speak for what Kempis might have been thinking when he wrote the below…I can only share what I see when I read it.
*If only we were completely dead to self, and free from inner conflict, we could savour spiritual things, and win experience of heavenly contemplation.
-The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 11 *
Click to expand...
When I read this - I see him wishing to be free of the natural aspects of the self. Those things that conflict with ones journey toward God.
Temptations, evil impulses and thoughts, bodily appetites that conflict with that which draws us to God.
Yes, God loves me, but I’m still dead to self.
Click to expand...
Well to this “common folk” this makes little sense. It leaves nothing with which to Love others.

Let me explain it this way…
The “self” is like a box. The box can be filled with good things or bad things. but regardless of what it is filled with…good…bad…or some combination…the box remains.
I should not hate the box, for God created this box - which is my “self”.
My task then is not to hate the box…but to hate the bad things In the box - get rid of them and replace them with good things. As you say - replace them with “Love”…

So this is why I reject this idea of hating one’s self…because i see the self as the shell which contains many things…we can change the things…but the shell, the container, the “self”… remains.

Peace
James
 
JRKH, let me add one more thing to the above, and that is that I only experience an outward LOVE. There is no inward LOVE within my being.
 
Robert_Sock said:
JRKH, let me add one more thing to the above, and that is that I only experience an outward LOVE. There is no inward LOVE within my being.
Click to expand...
I’m not surprised if you are dead to your “self”

Right now you sound like that soul that Jesus spoke of as having the demon driven out and is all swept clean…but containing nothing…It’s important that you invite that Love IN…to fill your self with that Love…for you know what happened in the parable…

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
I’m not surprised if you are dead to your “self”

Right now you sound like that soul that Jesus spoke of as having the demon driven out and is all swept clean…but containing nothing…It’s important that you invite that Love IN…to fill your self with that Love…for you know what happened in the parable…

Peace
James
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I appreciate your concerns and criticisms, but Jesus also spoke of a house that was built on solid rock…

There’s not much in this box outside of outward LOVE. I do have inner voices, such as those that tell me what to type. I also have an appetite which causes me to occasionally get up and feed this pitiful beast. I also have a desire to listen to non-stop classical and religious music throughout the day, which I willfully submit to. I even sometimes experience severe anxiety and depression which drives me up the wall. But that’s about all that is contained in this box. Nothing to love, for sure.

Do keep tuned to CAF and you’ll likely see me posting; if you so desire, I’ll keep you posted on how this ‘box’ is doing.

Nice chatting with you! 🙂
 
Robert_Sock said:
I appreciate your concerns and criticisms, but Jesus also spoke of a house that was built on solid rock…
Click to expand...
Amen - but remember Jesus said that house was built by a wise man.
Does a wise man “hate” his self?
There’s not much in this box outside of outward LOVE. I do have inner voices, such as those that tell me what to type. I also have an appetite which causes me to occasionally get up and feed this pitiful beast. I also have a desire to listen to non-stop classical and religious music throughout the day, which I willfully submit to. I even sometimes experience severe anxiety and depression which drives me up the wall. But that’s about all that is contained in this box. Nothing to love, for sure.
Click to expand...
Do keep tuned to CAF and you’ll likely see me posting; if you so desire, I’ll keep you posted on how this ‘box’ is doing.
Click to expand...
Nice chatting with you! 🙂
Click to expand...
Nice chatting with you too. I’ve seen many of your posts and look forward to more of them

May God continue to bless you on your journey.

Peace
James
 
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