September 11

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OneSheep

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Has anyone given any thought about this coming Sunday, September 11, the tenth anniversary of the World Trade Center attack?

I am encouraging forgiveness and reconciliation. We are to “forgive those who trespass against us”, and it doesn’t seem to be on enough agendas, certainly not on the agenda of the mainstream media.

Jesus wants us to forgive our enemies, including Osama Bin Laden. This does not mean, of course, that we do not continue to protect ourselves. It just means that we start with forgiveness in whatever we do. I would be interested in what anyone has to say about forgiving OBL and/or any people who seek to destroy us in order to force us to remove our military from the Middle East, where we have perceptibly “trespassed” into the lands of our enemies.
 
OneSheep said:
Has anyone given any thought about this coming Sunday, September 11, the tenth anniversary of the World Trade Center attack?

I am encouraging forgiveness and reconciliation. We are to “forgive those who trespass against us”, and it doesn’t seem to be on enough agendas, certainly not on the agenda of the mainstream media.

Jesus wants us to forgive our enemies, including Osama Bin Laden. This does not mean, of course, that we do not continue to protect ourselves. It just means that we start with forgiveness in whatever we do. I would be interested in what anyone has to say about forgiving OBL and/or any people who seek to destroy us in order to force us to remove our military from the Middle East, where we have perceptibly “trespassed” into the lands of our enemies.
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Í have seen this told that the worst thing that you can to an enemy is forgive him.
That said, I think that Jesus told us to forgive, He never told us to forget.
And He said too, that Christians should be smart as the snake and simple as doves.
There is much ant-Americanism in Europe, for Americans have some shortcomings that do please Europeans (neither me). But that does not make me anti-American for I do not forget what Americans did for Europe in times of tribulation.
Now, we must not forget those who do not forgive. I am not against Muslims as persons but their religion does not teach forgiveness. That is not part of their vocabulary. Here, in Germany, studied some of the 9/11 terrorists. They were model students. Never his teacher thought what went through their minds. One of them told the TV that when he cried when he saw that one of the terrorists was his student.
Let us see what the Arab Spring Brings, I have mush hope on it.
Meanwhile, I think we should remember the innocent who died and be smart as a snake.
 
I’m not as angry at the terrorists as I am at the government that 1) allowed it to happen and 2) spit on the graves of the victims by allowing a mosque to be built two blocks from Ground Zero.

2001: “We will never forget!”
2010: “Let’s build a mosque near Ground Zero.”
“What about 9/11?”
“Oh, that’s ancient history.”

People decide whether or not they want forgiveness by repenting or not. You can’t forgive people who don’t want it.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
What if they don’t WANT forgiveness?
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You bring up a very interesting point, the rulebook phenomenon. We all have rulebooks. To me, our enemies are those who have violated our personal (though often universally held) rules. If I am not forgiving people who have violated my rules, who am I forgiving? All the people whose behavior I like?

I actually have a list of my personal rules. I can understand completely a rule like “A person must WANT to be forgiven.” If that were the case for me, I may exact a penalty such as “If they don’t want to be forgiven, I am not going to forgive them.”

To me, the only person hurt by such a penalty is myself. I have plenty of these kind of penalties :)! Reconciliation, forgiveness, is a benefit to me, even if it is not a benefit to the one I forgive. That is my experience.
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
Í have seen this told that the worst thing that you can to an enemy is forgive him.
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From the strategic viewpoint of the enemy, it is the best thing one can do. Anything that causes pause on the victim’s part gives the enemy an advantage.

These are very evil people we are dealing with. They don’t care about us, our feelings, our forgiveness, our our religion. In fact, they don’t even care about their own if they get in the way.
 
It was said “You can’t forgive people who don’t want it.”

In your heart you can. Praying for them you can. It’s the only thing to do. All of us are
aimed for one place. Forgiveness dosn’t depend on the other person, but on ourselves.
Wishing them well, like, “Father forgive them for they no not what they do.”
 
Warrior1979 said:
From the strategic viewpoint of the enemy, it is the best thing one can do. Anything that causes pause on the victim’s part gives the enemy an advantage.

These are very evil people we are dealing with. They don’t care about us, our feelings, our forgiveness, our our religion. In fact, they don’t even care about their own if they get in the way.
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From a warrior’s standpoint, your strategic viewpoint makes some sense. To tie it in with your second paragraph, it can be of some advantage to depict the enemy as evil, which is effectively the opposite of reconciliation, in order to motivate the troops to kill without feeling guilty.

It seems to me that condemnation, rather than forgiveness, of those who are a threat is the “default mode” in human nature. The cognition of “evil” is automatically assigned to the object of our resentment. In contrast to our basic nature, I think the Lord’s prayer calls for a “kingdom” where forgiveness is the means to creating the kingdom. Certainly, a warrior can still forgive his or her enemy before going to battle. However, if reconciliation, rather than war, becomes the means to solving problems, then the complicated position of killing people you can love and relate to is avoided.
 
OneSheep said:
From a warrior’s standpoint, your strategic viewpoint makes some sense. To tie it in with your second paragraph, it can be of some advantage to depict the enemy as evil, which is effectively the opposite of reconciliation, in order to motivate the troops to kill without feeling guilty.

It seems to me that condemnation, rather than forgiveness, of those who are a threat is the “default mode” in human nature. The cognition of “evil” is automatically assigned to the object of our resentment. In contrast to our basic nature, I think the Lord’s prayer calls for a “kingdom” where forgiveness is the means to creating the kingdom. Certainly, a warrior can still forgive his or her enemy before going to battle. However, if reconciliation, rather than war, becomes the means to solving problems, then the complicated position of killing people you can love and relate to is avoided.
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It depends on what type of Warrior he is.🙂

Some simply accept reality for what it is, be it good or evil. Strategic advantage comes from being able to recognize that.

Those that automatically assign characteristics to the enemy regardless of whether they are true or false aren’t warriors.
 
Warrior1979 said:
From the strategic viewpoint of the enemy, it is the best thing one can do. Anything that causes pause on the victim’s part gives the enemy an advantage.

These are very evil people we are dealing with. They don’t care about us, our feelings, our forgiveness, our our religion. In fact, they don’t even care about their own if they get in the way.
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Attention:
The scenes I am showing are violent.
See at your own discretion. But it is reality and it is in Youtube.
ll religions are equal, as Pope Benedict called the dictatorship or relativism? See this and take your own conclusion. When we complain about this and that in the RCC, let’s remember these videos (if you can stand them to the end)

youtube.com/watch?v=Bl-z606Wrmw

youtube.com/watch?v=0Lvdv_4polk

youtube.com/watch?v=EGPj0k3NAiE&feature=related

youtube.com/watch?v=Pyq6WMatTEQ&feature=related

youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE6NJchLuzY

If I could upload a video, then, … no one whom I sent the video could see it till the ende, that is an arab teacher beating in all of his students without seeing his homeworks…
 
How about praying for national healing and protection, invoking the name of Fr. Mychal Judge, the Franciscan chaplain of the NYC fire department who died when the towers collapsed? In case people forgot, he responded to the fire call, and was in the towers giving Last Rites to the dying when the WTC collapsed on him. There is a particularly sad video footage of him standing near the windows, praying absolution for those who jumped in an attempt to escape the flames. He was the first victim carried out of the scene that day.

I don’t know if his cause has been proposed yet, either by his community or the Archdiocese of New York, but in my opinion it ought to be. He rose above two major personal challenges, lived a life of holy service, and died proclaiming the love of Christ for His people in horrible circumstances.

This nation will always be under attack, either real physical attack or ideologic attack, from those who hate democracy and freedom. The attacks of September 11, 2001 were only the most dramatic examples of that.
 
We seem to be getting off track here, from the question in my original post. Some well-intended folks are posting some very understandable reasons not to forgive our enemies. The challenge of the Gospel - forgive 70 times 7 times - love our enemies - do not judge - the Lord’s prayer calling us to forgive - is a call for behavior contrary to our first nature, which is to seek revenge, hate our enemy, etc. Nowhere in the Gospel is there a mandate to cling to reasons to avoid forgiving.

So, please, we all know the reasons not to forgive. The question in my thread is “How do we forgive Osama Bin Laden?” I am not the least bit disappointed that the other posts are there, and I thank you for putting in your opinions. But lets move on now to answer the question. I can share the way I was able to forgive first, if people posting prefer.
 
Some well-intended folks are posting some very understandable reasons not to forgive our enemies. The challenge of the Gospel - forgive 70 times 7 times - love our enemies - do not judge - the Lord’s prayer calling us to forgive - is a call for behavior contrary to our first nature, which is to seek revenge, hate our enemy, etc. Nowhere in the Gospel is there a mandate to cling to reasons to avoid forgiving.

So, please, we all know the reasons not to forgive. My primary question now is “How do we forgive Osama Bin Laden?” I am not the least bit disappointed that the other posts are there, and I thank you for putting in your opinions. But lets move on now to answer the question. The “how”, of course, is how we overcome all the reasons not to forgive. I can share the way I was able to forgive first, if people posting prefer.

My apologies for being a bit vague in my opening. I will try the question here for a day, and if there is no response I will open a new thread with the question and the way I went about forgiving OBL.
 
Warrior1979 said:
From the strategic viewpoint of the enemy, it is the best thing one can do. Anything that causes pause on the victim’s part gives the enemy an advantage.

These are very evil people we are dealing with. They don’t care about us, our feelings, our forgiveness, our our religion. In fact, they don’t even care about their own if they get in the way.
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Forgive, not forget.
 
I haven’t given too much thought into the (very) soon upcoming Ten Year Remembrance of the tragic events of September 11th, 2001, because I’m saving it.

Even though I’m a Canadian, I still feel the same loss as a human being and as a follower of Christ.

For this Sunday, all I know is this; Parish, and when I get home I got two different copies of the bible, the RSV and the Douay-Rheims version,

It will be a long day of prayer and reflection.
 
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