Serious Catholic theological proof?

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Hi was wondering if there was any serious Catholic metaphysical/theological/philosophical proof of creationism or semi-creationism(the belief that the earth is young but the universe could be older) ?

Because all I can find is the kolbe center - kolbecenter.org ( which is kinda eh )and that the theory of evolution can contradict the immaculate conception.

I don’t know much metaphysics/theology/philosophy and am more of a math and literature person if that helps ( :

Thank you
God bless
-john
 
Do you mean a philosophical proof that the Earth is only 6,000ish years old? I am not aware of any. To my knowledge, it would have to be an argument from Scripture, with additional arguments about the veracity of Scripture and then of justifying that particular understanding of Scripture (the last of which may be philosophical, if everything else can be established).

I’m not a Young Earth Creationist myself, but that’s my two cents. :twocents:

Edit: That the world is created in general (no specified timeframe)? Yes, there are multiple serious metaphysical/philosophical arguments for that.
 
Wesrock said:
Do you mean a philosophical proof that the Earth is only 6,000ish years old? I am not aware of any. To my knowledge, it would have to be an argument from Scripture, with additional arguments about the veracity of Scripture and then of justifying that particular understanding of Scripture (the last of which may be philosophical, if everything else can be established).

I’m not a Young Earth Creationist myself, but that’s my two cents. :twocents:

Edit: That the world is created in general (no specified timeframe)? Yes, there are multiple serious metaphysical/philosophical arguments for that.
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I’m not a young-earther either. I would gently recommend abandoning the position as I find it rather indefensible. Your faith as a good Catholic most certainly doesn’t depend on it.
 
aragonjohn1 said:
Hi was wondering if there was any serious Catholic metaphysical/theological/philosophical proof of creationism or semi-creationism(the belief that the earth is young but the universe could be older) ?

Because all I can find is the kolbe center - kolbecenter.org ( which is kinda eh )and that the theory of evolution can contradict the immaculate conception.

I don’t know much metaphysics/theology/philosophy and am more of a math and literature person if that helps ( :

Thank you
God bless
-john
Click to expand...
The answer is–it doesn’t matter one whit. Why people bother themselves about this is a mystery to me. After all, Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. His redemptive life, death and resurrection have the same power to save as ever. His Church is still alive and well and guided by the Holy Spirit. What more do we need to understand than that?

And how the Immaculate Conception of Mary could possibly be affected by a slow creation rather than a fast one, is beyond me. Men and women conceived and still conceive children in the same way as they did when she was conceived. The only difference being that in her case God kept her from inheriting original sin.

Genesis doesn’t tell us exactly when Adam and Eve were created. And the language used to describe the fall of man was mythological–which only means that was the style used to tell the story. It has nothing to do with the veracity of the story itself. Ancient peoples often told stories about their ancestors using mythological language because it was easier to remember and to tell. Adam and Eve were real people and they really failed God’s test of their faith, and we really suffer the effects of that failure. Exactly when and how it happened doesn’t matter in the least.
 
aragonjohn1 said:
Hi was wondering if there was any serious Catholic metaphysical/theological/philosophical proof of creationism or semi-creationism(the belief that the earth is young but the universe could be older) ?
Click to expand...
Most of that can be found in Protestant sources. Catholics gave up trying to work on that particular issue centuries back.
Because all I can find is the kolbe center - kolbecenter.org ( which is kinda eh )and that the theory of evolution can contradict the immaculate conception.
Click to expand...
There’s really nothing else besides the kolbe center. There was a priest in Pennsylvania that ran a creationist organization for a while - can’t remember and he’s gone.
The other good resource is The Roman Theological Forum:

rtforum.org/lt/index.html
rtforum.org/study/index.html

Fathers Harrison and McCarthy, I think, offer some theological defenses of creationism.
I don’t know much metaphysics/theology/philosophy and am more of a math and literature person if that helps ( :
Click to expand...
You will find virtuallly nobody (besides me and maybe one or two others) on CAF who will help you or be sympathetic with you on this kind of research. Expect hostility, dismissal, avoidance and lots of arguments against.

If you’re looking for creationist arguments this is not the place.
There are some Catholics active on the uncommondescent.com blog who are very well informed on this issue - and you’ll find an abundance of information there.
 
Della said:
The answer is–it doesn’t matter one whit. Why people bother themselves about this is a mystery to me. After all, Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. His redemptive life, death and resurrection have the same power to save as ever. His Church is still alive and well and guided by the Holy Spirit. What more do we need to understand than that?

And how the Immaculate Conception of Mary could possibly be affected by a slow creation rather than a fast one, is beyond me. Men and women conceived and still conceive children in the same way as they did when she was conceived. The only difference being that in her case God kept her from inheriting original sin.

Genesis doesn’t tell us exactly when Adam and Eve were created. And the language used to describe the fall of man was mythological–which only means that was the style used to tell the story. It has nothing to do with the veracity of the story itself. Ancient peoples often told stories about their ancestors using mythological language because it was easier to remember and to tell. Adam and Eve were real people and they really failed God’s test of their faith, and we really suffer the effects of that failure. Exactly when and how it happened doesn’t matter in the least.
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THIS^^^^^

Also, what is “floddering?”
 
aragonjohn1 said:
Hi was wondering if there was any serious Catholic metaphysical/theological/philosophical proof of creationism or semi-creationism(the belief that the earth is young but the universe could be older) ?

Because all I can find is the kolbe center - kolbecenter.org ( which is kinda eh )and that the theory of evolution can contradict the immaculate conception.

I don’t know much metaphysics/theology/philosophy and am more of a math and literature person if that helps ( :

Thank you
God bless
-john
Click to expand...
What you need to do is to get out of the Ivory Tower.

Real reality is that there is both a material world and a spiritual world which the Catholic Church understands.
 
Della said:
The answer is–it doesn’t matter one whit. Why people bother themselves about this is a mystery to me. After all, Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. His redemptive life, death and resurrection have the same power to save as ever. His Church is still alive and well and guided by the Holy Spirit. What more do we need to understand than that?

And how the Immaculate Conception of Mary could possibly be affected by a slow creation rather than a fast one, is beyond me. Men and women conceived and still conceive children in the same way as they did when she was conceived. The only difference being that in her case God kept her from inheriting original sin.

Genesis doesn’t tell us exactly when Adam and Eve were created. And the language used to describe the fall of man was mythological–which only means that was the style used to tell the story. It has nothing to do with the veracity of the story itself. Ancient peoples often told stories about their ancestors using mythological language because it was easier to remember and to tell. Adam and Eve were real people and they really failed God’s test of their faith, and we really suffer the effects of that failure. Exactly when and how it happened doesn’t matter in the least.
Click to expand...
Well said…thanks be to God!
 
Saint_Anthony8 said:
There is no proof as it is undeniably not true. The earth is young compared to the universe (the universe is 13.8 billion years old and the earth is 4.6). I suggest you read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne.
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I find Jerry Coyne to be a propagandist for atheistic materialism.
From the Catholic perspective, his view of evolution is not true.
 
aragonjohn1 said:
Hi was wondering if there was any serious Catholic metaphysical/theological/philosophical proof of creationism or semi-creationism(the belief that the earth is young but the universe could be older) ?

Because all I can find is the kolbe center - kolbecenter.org ( which is kinda eh )and that the theory of evolution can contradict the immaculate conception.

I don’t know much metaphysics/theology/philosophy and am more of a math and literature person if that helps ( :

Thank you
God bless
-john
Click to expand...
You could simply ignore everything science has said. You can be agnostic toward the scientific method, and simply have faith that the world was created 6000 years ago.

I don’t think there are any proofs though.
 
IWantGod said:
You could simply ignore everything science has said. You can be agnostic toward the scientific method, and simply have faith that the world was created 6000 years ago.

I don’t think there are any proofs though.
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So what you are doing to do with those evidences out there? God put them to check your faith. Isn’t confusing others evil?
 
STT said:
So what you are doing to do with those evidences out there? God put them to check your faith. Isn’t confusing others evil?
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I don’t believe the world was created 6000 years ago. However the scientific method is based upon methodological naturalism and we arrive at our conclusions based on this method. So, what science amounts to is “this is the best ****natural ****explanation”. “The evidence” is grounded in preconceived beliefs about how reality really is. And these beliefs might be wrong.

In reality, the world could have been created yesterday and we are simply assuming that the scientific method is capable of measuring reality as it really is. The point is there is an element of faith when it comes to scientific knowledge.

Personally i have no reason to doubt the scientific method.
 
reggieM said:
Most of that can be found in Protestant sources. Catholics gave up trying to work on that particular issue centuries back.

There’s really nothing else besides the kolbe center. There was a priest in Pennsylvania that ran a creationist organization for a while - can’t remember and he’s gone.
The other good resource is The Roman Theological Forum:

rtforum.org/lt/index.html
rtforum.org/study/index.html

Fathers Harrison and McCarthy, I think, offer some theological defenses of creationism.

You will find virtuallly nobody (besides me and maybe one or two others) on CAF who will help you or be sympathetic with you on this kind of research. Expect hostility, dismissal, avoidance and lots of arguments against.

If you’re looking for creationist arguments this is not the place.
There are some Catholics active on the uncommondescent.com blog who are very well informed on this issue - and you’ll find an abundance of information there.
Click to expand...
Thank you ( : I started believing in semi-creationism when I converted 11 years ago and a few years ago started believing in the theory stronger when I was given sight and hearing by two miracles a saw and heard everything for myself and thought (there’s no way this evolved in more than 100 million years ) I don’t understand how someone could be angry/hostile towards a person though:slapfight:

God bless
-john
 
grannymh said:
What you need to do is to get out of the Ivory Tower.

Real reality is that there is both a material world and a spiritual world which the Catholic Church understands.
Click to expand...
What’s an ivory tower?

Thank you
God bless
-john
 
IWantGod said:
I don’t believe the world was created 6000 years ago. However the scientific method is based upon methodological naturalism and we arrive at our conclusions based on this method. So, what science amounts to is “this is the best ****natural ****explanation”. “The evidence” is grounded in preconceived beliefs about how reality really is. And these beliefs might be wrong.

In reality, the world could have been created yesterday and we are simply assuming that the scientific method is capable of measuring reality as it really is. The point is there is an element of faith when it comes to scientific knowledge.

Personally i have no reason to doubt the scientific method.
Click to expand...
Do you believe that God is a deceiver putting all evidences there to misguide us?
 
STT said:
Do you believe that God is a deceiver putting all evidences there to misguide us?
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Its only evidence if you agree with the principles on which the scientific method is based.
 
IWantGod said:
Its only evidence if you agree with the principles on which the scientific method is based.
Click to expand...
Evidence is evidence my friend. Dynasores were real. You cannot say that the universe could have been created yesterday.
 
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