Sex Outside of Marriage and Hell

[Lynxdk]

Perhaps this article will help you:

catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0812btb.asp

Yep, it does. Thanks. God’s Truth doesn’t change, our understanding of it does.

 

[alongexpected]

Um… then how come we can eat shrimp? It used to be one of those “abominations”.

Exactly.

 

[alongexpected]

Using Biblical passages to prove points don’t hold any water with me. I use common sense, not the Bible, to figure out what’s truly sinful and bad.

You can’t use the Bible as the end-all authority for the reasons I already said.

Along with many good guidelines and laws, the Bible endorses slavery, the killing every inhabitant of cities the Israelites destroyed, condemns sitting on chairs that menstruating women had previously sat on, and other things that I don’t feel like researching right now.

Don’t be a blind lamb who believes and follows every single thing that your religion dictates. The way I see it, people actually SHOULD be cafeteria Catholics. Do you really believe that you were born into the exactly right religion? Do you really believe that our religion has a monopoly on the truth?

Here’s another thing. Fifty or so years ago, it was sinful (I’m assuming mortally so) for a Catholic to eat meat on any Friday during Lent. Vatican II, I believe, changed that. Let’s say the more lenient regulation started on Jan. 1, 1965. So you mean to tell me that it was mortally sinful to eat meat on Dec. 25, 1964, but then A-ok a mere week later?
I’m sure glad I wasn’t around in the 50’s and before! I’m sure lucky I was born later!

Ridiculous. Use common sense, guys. Eating meat on Fridays during Lent, not going to Church, and a myriad of other things are probably not going to commit you to an eternity of punishment.

But hey, maybe I’m dead wrong. I don’t know for sure what’s going to happen at the end of time.

Just stop acting like you do.

 

[Mijoy2]

Using Biblical passages to prove points don’t hold any water with me. I use common sense, not the Bible, to figure out what’s truly sinful and bad.

You can’t use the Bible as the end-all authority for the reasons I already said.

Along with many good guidelines and laws, the Bible endorses slavery, the killing every inhabitant of cities the Israelites destroyed, condemns sitting on chairs that menstruating women had previously sat on, and other things that I don’t feel like researching right now.

Don’t be a blind lamb who believes and follows every single thing that your religion dictates. The way I see it, people actually SHOULD be cafeteria Catholics. Do you really believe that you were born into the exactly right religion? Do you really believe that our religion has a monopoly on the truth?

Here’s another thing. Fifty or so years ago, it was sinful (I’m assuming mortally so) for a Catholic to eat meat on any Friday during Lent. Vatican II, I believe, changed that. Let’s say the more lenient regulation started on Jan. 1, 1965. So you mean to tell me that it was mortally sinful to eat meat on Dec. 25, 1964, but then A-ok a mere week later?
I’m sure glad I wasn’t around in the 50’s and before! I’m sure lucky I was born later!

Ridiculous. Use common sense, guys. Eating meat on Fridays during Lent, not going to Church, and a myriad of other things are probably not going to commit you to an eternity of punishment.

But hey, maybe I’m dead wrong. I don’t know for sure what’s going to happen at the end of time.

Just stop acting like you do.

Wow, reading this I’d almost believe I wrote it just a few short years back. It sounds exactly like the way I used to think. Then I read Mere Christianity and saw just how wrong my thinking actually was. Everlasting Man by G.K. Chesterton does a masterful job of the “comparative religion” discussion.

May I suggest you read these books before allowing the belief that all is relative and nobody can know the truth sets up shop too deeply in your mind. God, did, leave us with guiding principles and a Church. We can know and understand many truths.

May God guide you in your search.

 

[Newbie2]

Christ himself gave us the greatest commandment. Please try and explain to me how masturbating or fornicating is NOT treating your brother how he’d like to be treated.

What does masturbating have to do with how one treats his or her fellow men or women?

Perhaps the greatest commandment is first, Love God, then love your neighbor, no?

Still waiting for a response…

 

[Luke_K]

Please consider the following 2 scenarios

Scenario 1:
Steve, an unmarried ladies man has consensual sex with over 100 women in his life. He goes to confession and confesses these sins right before his death. When he dies he goes to heaven because he confessed his mortal sins.

John, also an unmarried man, is a very holy Catholic and has never had premarital sex. However, one day a supermodel seduces him. He knows it is a sin to have sex with her but gives into temptation this one time and has sex with her anyway. Before he can get to confession he is hit by a bus and killed. When he dies he goes to hell FOR ETERNITY because he died with an unconfessed mortal sin.

If I understand correctly, this is what the Roman Catholic church says would happen to these two individuals. Does this make any sense to you?

Scenario 2:
Bob, an unmarried ladies man has consensual sex with over 100 single women (none married) in his life. He knows that sex outside of marriage is a sin and regularly goes to confession to confess these sins. However, he continues to give into temptation and have sex outside of marriage. Sex is Bob’s only vice in life. Bob is a doctor in an emergency room and saves lives on a daily basis. Bob makes very good money but lives frugally and donates a substantial portion of his salary to charity. Bob goes to church on every Sunday and Holy day. Bob is always very kind to everyone that he interacts with. Do you think Bob should go to heaven or hell?

With these two scenarios, I am trying to make the point that some of the church’s teachings regarding mortal sins and where we go in the afterlife just don’t make any sense. I don’t want to be a cafeteria catholic but I am an intelligent person with common sense. My common sense tells me that God looks at a person’s entire life, weighing the good and the bad, when making a decision about an individual’s place in the afterlife. What are your thoughts?

It sounds like John had the intention of going to confession as soon as possible. Therefore, his mortal sin will not condemn him. If he was deliberately delaying going to confession because he thought his sin was no big deal, then it’s highly likely he ended up in hell.

The Church does not say that dying before receiving the sacrament of reconciliation for a mortal sin is a “straight-ticket to hell, no questions asked.”

The only sin that cannot be forgiven, under any circumstance, is final impenitence.

 

[reggieM]

What does masturbating have to do with how one treats his or her fellow men or women?

Masturbation is the simulation of the marital act. It’s a crime against marriage since sexual activity is reserved only for marriage. It’s an act of fornication with oneself – like theft, it steals a privilege that belongs to marriage. Any crime against marriage has a major effect against one’s fellow man or woman. It degrades the marital act. It also steals the energy and passion that is meant for one’s wife and gives it to oneself. Like any selfish action, it hurts others by closing off a true relationship with a woman. It degrades women by acting as if this action is a substitute for a relationship with a woman. Any act of unchastity is lustful – it’s grabbing things for oneself that actually belong to others. Your sexual powers belong only to your wife – and indirectly to your children who are born from them. Unchasitity and lust damage a person’s virtue and integrity-- thus harming the person from becoming a honorable member of society and a pure, virtuous mother or father. One’s children need to trust that their parents are not addicted to vice. One’s spouse should be able to trust the other person as being pure.
A masturbator degrades himself and damages his character. He is weakened in the face of the kind of bold, honorable actions he should take – because his virtue is compromised. He has to deal with the guilt. If he doesn’t have guilt for having sex with himself, then he’s even in worse condition. His conscience can’t recognize the shame that is part of human nature when the intimate act of marriage is performed by oneself, upon oneself – leaving nothing fruitful or productive or unitive in its path – and leading only to addiction and despair.

Any young man who wants to treat a woman rightly will cease masturbating and learn to triumph over temptations to lust. That’s how to build the courage that it takes to be a man.

 

[Newbie2]

Masturbation is the simulation of the marital act. It’s a crime against marriage since sexual activity is reserved only for marriage. It’s an act of fornication with oneself – like theft, it steals a privilege that belongs to marriage. Any crime against marriage has a major effect against one’s fellow man or woman. It degrades the marital act. It also steals the energy and passion that is meant for one’s wife and gives it to oneself. Like any selfish action, it hurts others by closing off a true relationship with a woman. It degrades women by acting as if this action is a substitute for a relationship with a woman. Any act of unchastity is lustful – it’s grabbing things for oneself that actually belong to others. Your sexual powers belong only to your wife – and indirectly to your children who are born from them. Unchasitity and lust damage a person’s virtue and integrity-- thus harming the person from becoming a honorable member of society and a pure, virtuous mother or father. One’s children need to trust that their parents are not addicted to vice. One’s spouse should be able to trust the other person as being pure.
A masturbator degrades himself and damages his character. He is weakened in the face of the kind of bold, honorable actions he should take – because his virtue is compromised. He has to deal with the guilt. If he doesn’t have guilt for having sex with himself, then he’s even in worse condition. His conscience can’t recognize the shame that is part of human nature when the intimate act of marriage is performed by oneself, upon oneself – leaving nothing fruitful or productive or unitive in its path – and leading only to addiction and despair.

Any young man who wants to treat a woman rightly will cease masturbating and learn to triumph over temptations to lust. That’s how to build the courage that it takes to be a man.

Oh, I agree with you, Reg, don’t get me wrong.

What I was responding to was the curious statement:

“Christ himself gave us the greatest commandment. Please try and explain to me how masturbating or fornicating is NOT treating your brother how he’d like to be treated.”

Which I still don’t get.

 

[reggieM]

Oh, I agree with you, Reg, don’t get me wrong.

What I was responding to was the curious statement:

“Christ himself gave us the greatest commandment. Please try and explain to me how masturbating or fornicating is NOT treating your brother how he’d like to be treated.”

Which I still don’t get.

Oh - I’m sorry. I read that the wrong way. Thanks.

 

[Chancellare]

This justification/rationalization is very common in a society plagued by secularism:
People give up their commitment to love God because they concluded He set them up for failure. The truth of the matter is, they confuse hardness of heart with strict morality as the cause of their failure. Christ saw that (hardness of heart, resorting to legalism) among the Pharisees and he told them that right in their faces but then again, how can you beat hardness of heart?

 

[Chancellare]

Don’t be a blind lamb who believes and follows every single thing that your religion dictates. The way I see it, people actually SHOULD be cafeteria Catholics.

I would not recommend that to those who don’t want to be condemned to be at the cafeteria all their lives.

 

[Chancellare]

I use common sense, not the Bible, to figure out what’s truly sinful and bad.

I just hope your version of common sense as a reference is exactly the same as the one used by God who decides whether you are sinful or bad!

Not to mention the rest of humanity who like you, surely have their own version of what’s sinful and bad!

 

[vandal02]

Alongexpected… are you a Catholic? (genuine question, not being sarcastic) Because if you are, I don’t think you should close your doors towards the Bible. I too have found myself offended upon hearing people say that “if you don’t know the word of God, you will go to hell! so if you don’t read the bible you will go to hell”. I also thought that common sense would be enough to lead me to the truth. Of course, a man with good conscience will make the right decisions using his common sense. It does not mean however that the Bible is not true. Instead of using your common sense alone, why don’t you keep an open mind and see what the Bible has to say. You seem to be the kind of person that wants the truth. (no, i am not patronizing you).

The Bible does not endorse slavery, etc… don’t take it too literally. The Bible is also a historical account of what the state of life was back then. If there was slavery, then slavery will be written in the Bible. I don’t know what verses you are referring to, but I am pretty sure the Bible doesn’t tell us to do evil.

Going back to me being offended by people citing the Bible too much. At first I thought I could do without reading the Bible… I am too busy so I am excused. I believed in common sense and a good conscience. But as I thought (using my common sense) about stuff a bit more, I realized that I was being arrogant, prideful in my ability to comprehend things. That’s when I thought about reading the Bible. I humbled (not trying to brag here) myself enough to accept the possibility of the Bible containing words that could save me.

Thanks for reminding me about that not eating meat on Friday… I failed at that these last two months. I think the whole idea about not eating meat is for us to practice moderation and obedience to authority. The “letter” of the law/rule might tell us about not eating meat, but the “spirit” of it is really about moderation and obedience.

My statement about moderation and obedience should hopefully prove to you that we Catholics don’t just follow “every single thing that our religion dictates”. Being a Catholic is also knowing the meaning behind those “dictated things” and how it connects with our lives with God.

Just because something may not look like a one way ticket to eternal damnation, it doesn’t mean you should always do it. Take the church thing, if you don’t go to church during Sunday; you’re fragile human nature might forget about God’s teachings and become more susceptible to the devil. I hope that you haven’t forgotten that going to church is not merely being physically present, it is important that you understand your purpose there. Again, this statement is proof that we are not merely following what our religion dictates.

Yeah, I know it’s boring to read that wall of text. I hope I don’t seem hostile to you, I am just trying to explain things as I understand them. I hope you take a moment to think about what I posted. God Bless!

As always, if by any chance I said anything unGodly in my post… feel free to correct me.

P.S.

Please pray for me! I hope to keep away from sexual impurity. thanks!

 

[vandal02]

Christ himself gave us the greatest commandment. Please try and explain to me how masturbating or fornicating is NOT treating your brother how he’d like to be treated.

I think the idea behind that is connected to human dignity. First, it’s not just how “he/she” would like to be treated. It’s about how God wants us to treat others and ourselves.

1. Masturbation: when you masturbate, you fantasize about sex. You are fantasizing about other people. Respecting the dignity of others includes not treating them as an object. When you fantasize you treat that person like an object of lust. Even if he/she would enjoy that, God would not. So it’s wrong.
2. Fornication: same with masturbation, only this time you are in direct physical contact with the object of your lust.

You might say that if you truly love someone, shouldn’t it be ok to fornicate? Since love and not lust is the reason behind the sex. If you think like that, there is a good chance that the devil is trying to go ninja on your head. He makes you think that it is harmless so that he will more easily lead you to other sins… Also, there is nothing evil about being pure (avoiding fornication). I am pretty sure that purity won’t send you to hell. So if God wants you to be pure, you should be humble enough to follow Him.

 

[alongexpected]

What does masturbating have to do with how one treats his or her fellow men or women?

Perhaps the greatest commandment is first, Love God, then love your neighbor, no?

Still waiting for a response…

It doesn’t. That’s my point. Yes, you could argue that masturbation goes against loving God because God doesn’t want you to do that, or it’s abusing the gift of sexuality, etc…

I just disagree with it.

 

[alongexpected]

Alongexpected… are you a Catholic? (genuine question, not being sarcastic) Because if you are, I don’t think you should close your doors towards the Bible. I too have found myself offended upon hearing people say that “if you don’t know the word of God, you will go to hell! so if you don’t read the bible you will go to hell”. I also thought that common sense would be enough to lead me to the truth. Of course, a man with good conscience will make the right decisions using his common sense. It does not mean however that the Bible is not true. Instead of using your common sense alone, why don’t you keep an open mind and see what the Bible has to say. You seem to be the kind of person that wants the truth. (no, i am not patronizing you).

The Bible does not endorse slavery, etc… don’t take it too literally. The Bible is also a historical account of what the state of life was back then. If there was slavery, then slavery will be written in the Bible. I don’t know what verses you are referring to, but I am pretty sure the Bible doesn’t tell us to do evil.

Going back to me being offended by people citing the Bible too much. At first I thought I could do without reading the Bible… I am too busy so I am excused. I believed in common sense and a good conscience. But as I thought (using my common sense) about stuff a bit more, I realized that I was being arrogant, prideful in my ability to comprehend things. That’s when I thought about reading the Bible. I humbled (not trying to brag here) myself enough to accept the possibility of the Bible containing words that could save me.

Thanks for reminding me about that not eating meat on Friday… I failed at that these last two months. I think the whole idea about not eating meat is for us to practice moderation and obedience to authority. The “letter” of the law/rule might tell us about not eating meat, but the “spirit” of it is really about moderation and obedience.

My statement about moderation and obedience should hopefully prove to you that we Catholics don’t just follow “every single thing that our religion dictates”. Being a Catholic is also knowing the meaning behind those “dictated things” and how it connects with our lives with God.

Just because something may not look like a one way ticket to eternal damnation, it doesn’t mean you should always do it. Take the church thing, if you don’t go to church during Sunday; you’re fragile human nature might forget about God’s teachings and become more susceptible to the devil. I hope that you haven’t forgotten that going to church is not merely being physically present, it is important that you understand your purpose there. Again, this statement is proof that we are not merely following what our religion dictates.

Yeah, I know it’s boring to read that wall of text. I hope I don’t seem hostile to you, I am just trying to explain things as I understand them. I hope you take a moment to think about what I posted. God Bless!

As always, if by any chance I said anything unGodly in my post… feel free to correct me.

P.S.

Please pray for me! I hope to keep away from sexual impurity. thanks!

No…I’m not Catholic. I used to be. And thanks for your response. But I think we’ll just have to respectfully agree to disagree.