Sexually Explicit Fiction

[Tynsal]

Hey all,
I know parts of this have been covered in other places, but intention and disposition make a difference and I haven’t seen anything similar. Please forgive me if I’m missing an obvious post.

I have a friend who enjoys reading sexually explicit fiction, but only for entertainment, not for any kind of sexual satisfaction. The reader knows that they will encounter sexually explicit scenes and that they may feel arousal (so I guess you could call it consenting), but these are NOT the main reasons for reading. The fiction is limited to situations that the Catholic Church would allow in real life (married couples, for the purpose of procreation and bonding, no contraceptive practices, etc.). Since it is a text based medium, there are no real people involved, other than the reader.

I understand that reading this kind of thing in order to become aroused or to fuel sexual fantasies is severely wrong. My friend reads this stuff simply out of boredom, and perhaps some curiosity about what a healthy, morally correct, sexual life looks like. The reader is very analytic and treats it like an interesting study, rather than an indulgence in baser inclinations.

I know that this definitely counts as an occasion of sin, but is it sinful in itself? If not, under what circumstances would it become sinful? Any help would be most appreciated.

 

[Bookcat]

You mean some race-y novel?

Not something for Christians (or anyone)…

Read good stuff like Tolkien.

 

[Tynsal]

You mean some race-y novel?

Not something for Christians (or anyone)…

Read good stuff like Tolkien.

Not quite like that. She actually has quite discerning taste in literature and it takes quite a lot for her to enjoy the story. That’s why she tends to read more explicit works; she finds some of them far better written with more character development than popular fiction (like Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey, or The Hunger Games).

She does read Tolkien as well as Chesterton, Dickens, and many other great authors.

 

[AB_Juney]

…Implying that The Hunger Games is somehow inferior fiction and deserves to be compared with Twilight. That’s ridiculous.

Anyway, material that contains sexual implications is, in itself, not completely forbidden but it’s a case by case. Just because she doesn’t read ot be aroused, doesn’t mean that it wasn’t written FOR the purpose. If it’s a few fleeting scenes, that’s one thing, because it’s merely a plot contrivance in a larger story. But if it’s written purely TO entice, then it’s pornography.

 

[johnnyjones]

Not quite like that. She actually has quite discerning taste in literature and it takes quite a lot for her to enjoy the story. That’s why she tends to read more explicit works; she finds some of them far better written with more character development than popular fiction (like Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey, or The Hunger Games).

She does read Tolkien as well as Chesterton, Dickens, and many other great authors.

You didn’t say if she was married or not. What is the purpose of reading sexually explicit material if your married? Your focusing on someone elses erotic moments. If your single your stimulating yourself to the point of frustration. What good is that? Would you advocate a man looking at the equivelant of what would stimulate him such as Playboy mag pics? Same thing for women who are more “literally” stimulated.

 

[Tynsal]

…Implying that The Hunger Games is somehow inferior fiction and deserves to be compared with Twilight. That’s ridiculous.

I agree with you, but she has dissmissed both has having flat, predicable plots with little character development. Though she does believe The Hunger Games a far better read than Twilight

johnnyjones: I’m sorry, she is unmarried and similarly, not dating anyone.

If your single your stimulating yourself to the point of frustration. What good is that? Would you advocate a man looking the equivelant of what woul stimulate him suck as Playboy mag pics? Same thing for women who are more “literally” stimulated.

As I said before, she is not trying to stimulate herself. She is simply enjoying what she determines is a good story and an array of good characters. Any interest in the sexual scenes is simply out of a engineer’s desire to know how things (including humans) are put together and interact.

 

[robwar]

I doubt that she would listen to you but reading books such as this is the same as looking at visual pornography. She may justify it any way she wants to and claim they are “better” in “character development”. She is reading them the same way as someone saying that they get playboy to read the in-depth articles with analysis. Baloney. You don’t really know that she “isn’t” being stimulated or not and it is wrong whether she is single or not. We are to follow “whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, WHATEVER IS PURE, whatever is love ely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worth of praise, think about these things.” Philippians 4:8. Some who is reading these books is not doing that. Again you can tell her that these books are wrong and they are but I doubt she will listen to you and I would suggest to find friends that have as a goal moral purity and excellence.

 

[AB_Juney]

Let me put it in a little perspective. While sexual sins and temptation are easier than others to fall into, I think it’s important to note that sex is not the great taboo many assume it is. But, like everything, it needs ot be subject to moral restraint.

I suggest you check out decentfilms.com, and read their about page article called, What Are The Decent Films?

To summarize (although he says it much better) the entertainment we enjoy does not need to be perfect. Art, literature, film, are all beautiful things, and do sometimes deal with sexual themes, violence, tragedy, death, horror, etc. There is no need for Catholics to be so rigorist that we reject anything that deals with nudity or sex or violence.

However, I repeat again, these depictions must be subject to moral restraint. erotic fiction IS pornography. They are not real people, but it’s intention is to arouse.

Now, the important thing is defining whaterotic literature is. 50 Shades of Gray counts, hands down, but that’s an obvious one.

Let’s take tywo example. When I was younger, I was allowed to read whatever I wanted. My parents didn’t believe in censorship, or limited or putting rules on what I read. In general, I agree with that, and will raise my children mostly the same way. However, once I started reading adult novels, I think it would have been a good idea to be more careful, as I will be wiht my kids.

When I was about 13 or 14, I brought home two books from the Library. One was Dean Koontz’s Hideaway. the other was The Dragon Lords Daughters, by Beattrice Small. Hideaway is a murder mystery that explores the evils of the occult, as well as the saddness of psychosis and metal illness. It also contained a scene, less than a page long, depicting a sexual encounter between a married couple. It was exciting because I was young, but now that I’m older, I see it is a very restrained depiction, focusing on loving passion, poetic euphemisms, and emotion. I do not think it is a problematic peice of literature.

Now, the Dragon Lords Daughters is highly erotic. It contained page after page of erotic descriptions, detailed physical explanations, and the sex scenes were very long and involved. Additionally, a large part of the plot needed these scenes, because it hinged on passion and erotic enticement. While I suppose some might be able to enjoy what little plot there was, in general, I cannot see what the point on this book was but to excite. It’s porn for women.

Treat it like art. Not all nudes are meant to entice and arouse. Some are made for art’s sake, some are made to sexually tease.

 

[AB_Juney]

I doubt that she would listen to you but reading books such as this is the same as looking at visual pornography. She may justify it any way she wants to and claim they are “better” in “character development”. She is reading them the same way as someone saying that they get playboy to read the in-depth articles with analysis. Baloney. You don’t really know that she “isn’t” being stimulated or not and it is wrong whether she is single or not. We are to follow “whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, WHATEVER IS PURE, whatever is love ely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worth of praise, think about these things.” Philippians 4:8. Some who is reading these books is not doing that. Again you can tell her that these books are wrong and they are but I doubt she will listen to you and I would suggest to find friends that have as a goal moral purity and excellence.

I think wether or not the OP knows if her friend is being aroused or not by the books is irrelvant, really. If it was a morally neutral book, or one that showed more restraint and her friend said it was not an issue for her, I’d think that would be a different story, and the OP could take her word for it (For example, if the OP is more rigorist about reading material than her friend). However, we’re talking about erotic material which, if it’s truly erotic literature, is in and of itself sinful, redgardless.

I also find it sad that you’re encouraging her to break up with a friend just because they don’t agree on every issue of morality. OP, don’t break up with your friend just because she is not at the same place spiritually as you. If she is not imposing her tastes on you, or trying to entice you to follow her, your friendship may well someday be of great spiritual value to her.

 

[golfervo]

Hey all,
I know parts of this have been covered in other places, but intention and disposition make a difference and I haven’t seen anything similar. Please forgive me if I’m missing an obvious post.

I have a friend who enjoys reading sexually explicit fiction, but only for entertainment, not for any kind of sexual satisfaction. The reader knows that they will encounter sexually explicit scenes and that they may feel arousal (so I guess you could call it consenting), but these are NOT the main reasons for reading. The fiction is limited to situations that the Catholic Church would allow in real life (married couples, for the purpose of procreation and bonding, no contraceptive practices, etc.). Since it is a text based medium, there are no real people involved, other than the reader.

I understand that reading this kind of thing in order to become aroused or to fuel sexual fantasies is severely wrong. My friend reads this stuff simply out of boredom, and perhaps some curiosity about what a healthy, morally correct, sexual life looks like. The reader is very analytic and treats it like an interesting study, rather than an indulgence in baser inclinations.

I know that this definitely counts as an occasion of sin, but is it sinful in itself? If not, under what circumstances would it become sinful? Any help would be most appreciated.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions!

 

[AB_Juney]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions!

Platitudes don’t mean anything unless yougive moral and church teaching to go morein depth, hon.

 

[Tynsal]

Now, the Dragon Lords Daughters is highly erotic. It contained page after page of erotic descriptions, detailed physical explanations, and the sex scenes were very long and involved. Additionally, a large part of the plot needed these scenes, because it hinged on passion and erotic enticement. While I suppose some might be able to enjoy what little plot there was, in general, I cannot see what the point on this book was but to excite. It’s porn for women.

Treat it like art. Not all nudes are meant to entice and arouse. Some are made for art’s sake, some are made to sexually tease.

So would you say that all literature meant to excite, regardless of the disposition of the reader, is pornographic and sinful to read? Or that erotic literature can only be read with a certain disposition, otherwise it is pornographic (and thus sinful)? Are you defining ‘erotic literature’ by it’s reception and perception by the reader, or by the author’s intent?

 

[AB_Juney]

I think it is primarily the authors intent. This does leave a small gray area, but as a Bishop once said, the church has always taght and will always teach that the arts,are a gray area.

Pray about it. Honestly look at what the author is trying to say in his book. God will lead youto be able to discern what is porographic, and what is a restrained portrayel of sex.

Again, I reccomend DecentFilms.com. he says it SO much better than I can!!

 

[thewanderer]

What matters is its effect on the reader. If it is a book that is not leading that particular reader into sin then I don’t see what is wrong with it. Some people are more easily tempted sexually than others. Because of this there is no hard cut-off line of what is and is not ok to read or watch etc. For some people such books will be a near occasion of sin, for others they won’t. If the book is not causing your friend to sin and is not a near occasion of sin, then there isn’t anything wrong with reading it. Though I would like to point out that the problems with such books are not necessarily limited to being sexually arousing, they could lead one to have a skewed view of sexuality, or they could just be a complete frivolous waste of time that perhaps should have been spent on something more worthwhile. Ultimtely the answer is that there is no clear-cut answer. It depends on the person, book, and circumstances.

 

[AB_Juney]

What matters is its effect on the reader. If it is a book that is not leading that particular reader into sin then I don’t see what is wrong with it. Some people are more easily tempted sexually than others. Because of this there is no hard cut-off line of what is and is not ok to read or watch etc. For some people such books will be a near occasion of sin, for others they won’t. If the book is not causing your friend to sin and is not a near occasion of sin, then there isn’t anything wrong with reading it. Though I would like to point out that the problems with such books are not necessarily limited to being sexually arousing, they could lead one to have a skewed view of sexuality, or they could just be a complete frivolous waste of time that perhaps should have been spent on something more worthwhile. Ultimtely the answer is that there is no clear-cut answer. It depends on the person, book, and circumstances.

I think this sums it up pretty well, although I do personally feel that there is a point where that gray area becomes pretty solidly black

 

[Tynsal]

Thank you all for your assistance with this. I now have some idea of what to say to her and I will encourage her to speak with her confessor. Thank you for taking the time to help!

 

[AB_Juney]

Of course honey! I too have freinds who like to read erotica, pornography, etc. I use to as well. The important thing is, if she still doesn’t choose to stop, know it isn’t your fault. I spent so many months reccently feeling so much guilt, feeling that if I couldn’t stop my friends behavior, God would blame me. Itisn’t true, and youre friends need your holy influence.

 

[Yalibeth]

Of course honey! I too have freinds who like to read erotica, pornography, etc. I use to as well. The important thing is, if she still doesn’t choose to stop, know it isn’t your fault. I spent so many months reccently feeling so much guilt, feeling that if I couldn’t stop my friends behavior, God would blame me. Itisn’t true, and youre friends need your holy influence.

what is your opinion on Alexander Trocchi? At one place I read that was “pornographic litterature” and he was an adict to heroin. But when I read him (I saw a movie “Young Adam” and a novel, “School of sin”) it seemed to me that he has much of an Aholibah playing hopeless with the pools of wine that had put her drunk and made her commit those terrible sins.