Sheet music and copyright

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Hermione

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I used to take piano lessons, and my music teacher would give me her music books to make photocopies from. I now have a very large collection of photocopies of music, and am wondering if having them violates copyright.

Can I keep them? Do I need to throw them away? Make restitution?

Thanks! 🙂
 
According to copyright law (which I knew about 8 years ago), you may copy portions of a book if:
  • No more than one chapter of a given text is being copied
  • The text itself is out-of-print/otherwise unavailable (then you can copy the whole thing)
  • You have ordered the text, but time constraints require you to have the material NOW; in which case, you may copy what you need so long as you destroy it when the actual text arrives.
  • The material is in the public domain.
I may be forgetting something, but those are the highlights.

In your case, what constitutes a “chapter” from a text?

As for public domain, your actual music tunes may well be in the pulic domain, but the arrangements likely are still copyrighted. . .which leaves you in the same dilemma.

Legally (and therefore, ethically in this case), save the one song/chapter from each text you like the best. . .and sadly, get rid of the rest.

Anyone else more up on this topic than I am?
 
In college we made copies out of pages of books in the library for research reasons…is that okay?
 
Sure. . .so long as they were selected pages, or one chapter of a book.

Say you are copying articles from a journal (what I typically did in college). One article from a journal is OK. Two technically is a copyright violation. Various pages from throughout a text shouldn’t be a big deal. 5 pages from a book (this is ballpark) ought to be OK. 10 is questionable. 25 is surely too many.
 
Well, I was about to throw everything away but I figured I’d ask my mom beforehand.

My mom said that my music teacher paid for the books and has the right to give copies to the students. She also said that this is why the books cost so much, because the publishers assume that they’ll be given to students.

Is there any truth to this, should I listen to my mom or just throw away the music?
 
Dont throw anything away your fine. As long as your not making money off of it your fine. They are part of the lessons you took and paid for.
 
My mom said that my music teacher paid for the books and has the right to give copies to the students. She also said that this is why the books cost so much, because the publishers assume that they’ll be given to students
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To the best of my knowledge, this is UNTRUE unless it says clearly on the copyright page that permission is given to photocopy pages for instructional purposes.

If you’re serious about the moral duty here, you need to investigate this. . .perhaps by calling your old music teacher if you don’t have copyright pages.
Dont throw anything away your fine. As long as your not making money off of it your fine. They are part of the lessons you took and paid for.
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Sorry, this is completely false. Publishers do not care if you paid for lessons or not, and whether or not if you make money only impacts how much they ask for damages when they sue. If you use the text, they expect you to pay for it. Using your logic, colleges would allow for textbooks to be copied with no one ever buying their own texts, and that manifestly is not the case. College copy centers in fact will not break copyright law, not even if professors ask them to (this is CERTAINLY the case at the University of Washington)

Now, in honesty Hermione, few if any publishers would actually pursue you. You aren’t going to get fined for this. But morally, I believe your mom and the Dude here are misguided.

If you can find documentation to back up your claim, Dude, I will eat a printout of this thread.
 
Yeah, what demolitionman65 said

There is a whole doctrine of “fair use” but I don’t think you are covered here

If you are in the US here is a good primer for copyright law

www-sul.stanford.edu/cpyright.html

As a producer of intellectual property this is a sore spot for me.

I’ve gotten into some arguments with folks who think stealing songs in ok because the “record companies make too much money”
 
Thanks everyone! 🙂

I’ve resolved to throw away the music sheets. Is there an obligation to make restitution?

Also, if my mom doesn’t want me to throw them away, can I still do so without violating the 4th commandment?

Thanks again!
 
I am a Music Director with private students. It is NEVER okay to copy music unless you have paid for the rights to do so. Copying one page to tape onto the book so you don’t need a page turner at a recital is okay as long as you destroy it immediately after, but you cannot simply copy it out of the book for your own use. This is why the price is so high on music books and most stores have a policy on not accepting refunds in any circumstance. Copying music is theft and your teacher, as a musician, should have known better.
 
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demolitionman65:
Dont throw anything away your fine. As long as your not making money off of it your fine. They are part of the lessons you took and paid for
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.

Sorry, this is completely false. Publishers do not care if you paid for lessons or not, and whether or not if you make money only impacts how much they ask for damages when they sue. If you use the text, they expect you to pay for it. Using your logic, colleges would allow for textbooks to be copied with no one ever buying their own texts…

Now, in honesty Hermione, few if any publishers would actually pursue you. You aren’t going to get fined for this. But morally, I believe your mom and the Dude here are misguided.
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Lets start off about the college thing. First of all the textbook publishers are utter thieves. Second of all I have been in college libraries and they have rows and rows of copy machines. People are allowed to copy pages out of text books I have seen people do it with librarians showing them how to use a copy machine. A few pages of sheet music is no big deal, its not like you copied the whole book or went around making money off of it. It is for private home use.
If they are so scared of people copying stuff they wouldnt have a public library, people take home books, tapes, cds, etc and copy them with no problems.

In terms of copying a whole textbook that is not allowed and I dont think anyone would be able to print off 750 pages and go around with a ream of priter paper as their book.

I dont see where the misguided thing comes in. The publishers that put out stuff are complete thieves, I dont deal with them, I would rather get my stuff from the library than buy their stuff.
 
Lets start off about the college thing. First of all the textbook publishers are utter thieves.
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Start with this:
I’ve gotten into some arguments with folks who think stealing songs in ok because the “record companies make too much money”
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Just because YOU may think they are thieves doesn’t alter the fact you are stealing. Robin Hood cuts no moral ice in the Catholic Church.
econd of all I have been in college libraries and they have rows and rows of copy machines. People are allowed to copy pages out of text books I have seen people do it with librarians showing them how to use a copy machine. A few pages of sheet music is no big deal, its not like you copied the whole book or went around making money off of it. It is for private home use.
If they are so scared of people copying stuff they wouldnt have a public library, people take home books, tapes, cds, etc and copy them with no problems.
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I was referring to the fact that in copy centers,manned by people who actually DO the copying, they WILL NOT violate copyright law.
It is for private home use.
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ANd you pay for books in the home, as well as movies and so on. Same idea applies.
In terms of copying a whole textbook that is not allowed and I dont think anyone would be able to print off 750 pages and go around with a ream of priter paper as their book.
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Of course it isn’t allowed, but you better believe that people try.

Doesn’t look like I need to crank out the meat tenderizer just yet to eat this thread.😃

Hermione:
Also, if my mom doesn’t want me to throw them away, can I still do so without violating the 4th commandment?
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In the unlikely event your mother ORDERED you keep them, you are not bound to obedience if the command of obedience requires you to then sin to keep the command. So no, don’t sweat #4. 😉
 
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demolitionman65:
Doesn’t look like I need to crank out the meat tenderizer just yet to eat this thread.😃
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It doesnt look like youll ever need to. You deserve a beer for a job well done.
 
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Affirmed:
I am a Music Director with private students. It is NEVER okay to copy music unless you have paid for the rights to do so. Copying one page to tape onto the book so you don’t need a page turner at a recital is okay as long as you destroy it immediately after, but you cannot simply copy it out of the book for your own use. This is why the price is so high on music books and most stores have a policy on not accepting refunds in any circumstance. Copying music is theft and your teacher, as a musician, should have known better.
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Thanks for the response. Just to set the record straight it was us who made the copies, not my music teacher. Although she knew about it given that she saw the copies, and it was assumed that she gave us books and page numbers so that we could make copies. I guess it’s always possible that we assumed wrong and she’s not at fault!
 
I’m both a Catholic and a law student and I must say I have huge reservations about copyright laws as they are now. They are clearly a business thing and not a morality thing. They are meant to protect just one party’s arbitrary interests and not objective justice. They are often bizarre and oppressive. This has not always been so. I prefer to observe those laws, but some of the stuff is ridiculous.
 
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Hermione:
I used to take piano lessons, and my music teacher would give me her music books to make photocopies from. I now have a very large collection of photocopies of music, and am wondering if having them violates copyright.

Can I keep them? Do I need to throw them away? Make restitution?

Thanks! 🙂
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Possessing these copies is perfectly ok. 35 U.S.C. section 107 makes such use fair for teaching purposes. In the situation you describe (getting them from your piano teacher), the use is fair.
 
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InstaurareSacra:
Possessing these copies is perfectly ok. 35 U.S.C. section 107 makes such use fair for teaching purposes. In the situation you describe (getting them from your piano teacher), the use is fair.
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Are you kidding I just lost a bet to DemoMan!!!
 
I’m with demoman on this one. Just because something is used in teaching doesn’t necessarily make it fair use. My high school band teacher couldn’t buy one copy of each part, and make copies for the rest of us–he had to buy as many official copies as there were students. My music tutor always made me buy my own books as well.
 
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