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Sam_777
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The practice of betrothed before puberty is common in the Islamic countries, it’s common once the baby is born the parents would lock him or her to his or her cousin, this is happening till this date specially within the same tribes to prevent any possible outsider from ruining the marriage in the future once the children become adults.So Aisha was betrothed to another man before Mohammad. I don’t know what to comment on this and if I do, it may not be flattering to Muslims.
M
MissyB786
Guest
Sunnis believe Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) to be the last prophet and therefore anyone after him that took charge such as the Caliphates, have regarded as highly honourable but not divine.Before going into further discussion around the differences it’s important to get some context around each group. Sunnis consider the period of when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and his companions lived to be the best era in Islam. They consider the first 3 centuries of early Islam to be the golden years. Even to this day you find Sunni muslims who are vocal about returning to a caliphate based system. Sunnis consider the personalities close to the prophet to be sacred. His wives, and his companions in particular. To say anything negative about any of his wives or his companions is considered blasphemy and in some countries equated to apostasy and is a crime punishable by death.
Shias on the other hand have a negative view of early Islamic History. They believe the personalities surrounding the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) were hypocrites who converted to Islam for fame, conquest, riches, and the prospect of personal, financial or political gain.
Shias believe these people along with the 2 of the Muhammad’s (pbuh) wives corrupted Islam and fabricated false stories about the prophet. Shias believe that 2 of Muhammad’s (phuh) closest companions and their daughters conspired to poison and kill the prophet. They conspired to usurp Ali’s right and also killed his wife and the prophet’s daughter. Shias believe the so called companions killed the prophet’s first grandson Hassan, and then moved to kill his second grandson Hussein. Shias collectively refer to Ali, Fatima, Hassan, and Hussein as the prophet’s household and the guardians of the faith. Therefore Shias reject any hadiths, religious rulings, quranic interpretations etc… that has been transmitted through the prophet’s household.
so in the eyes of Sunnis, the shia are seen as destroying Islam from within and therefore are vilified. In the eyes of the Sunni a shia is a non-muslim and non-believer.
The shia on the other hand see the sunni version of islam as an imposter. They see Sunnis as being simple minded people who are deceived by their religious leaders.
Shias have a concept that the 12imams are infallible and a they are divinely appointed by God, but sunnis believe the divine appointment ended with Muhammed(PBUH). If the 12imams were 'divinely’appointed why could they not take charge? Was it under their rule? No, not that sunnis disrespect the 12imams we also regards them as highly honorable but we believe they would not classify themselves as Shia but as Sunni.
Also there are no evidence he left a successor and Shias will use certain hadiths, which we believe to be fabricated to back their beleifs. They use Hadiths about Ali(ra) saying the Prophet honors him and claim it is also to leave him in charge, but then there are also lots of other hadiths that honor the other companions as well.
If Ali(ra) was meant to be in charge, why did he pledge allegiance to his ‘so called oppressors’ and also name his sons after them.
With regards to the death of Hussein(ra), it was done by the people of Kufa(Iraq), they called him out to pledge allegiance to him, but when he came they all backed out and left him alone to be killed. So to this day the people of Kufa(Iraq) beat themselves senselessly for their guilt they have in the death of Hussein(ra). This event is tragic to both sides, but Sunnis believe as a result of this hardship Hussein(ra) was matyred and recieves a more higher status in heaven, because matyrs get a greater reward.
At the end of the day, it is a political difference not a religions one, regards to caliphate/imamate, Both sides have their hadiths evidence etc… but Shia hadiths being generated later than Sunni ones, we believe there to be errors in their accounts. Both sides taking their own interpretation of hadiths.
Sunnis believe the first 30years was a Goldern era, wherease Shias believe there to be conflict even before the Prophets(PBUH) death. The companions that Shias disrespect, the Prophet(PBUH) and Ali(ra) never said a bad word about then, so why do Shias?
We also have this discussion over on Sunniforum.com you are welcome to come join and ask more questions and read the explanations from Sunni accounts.
answersforshiafriend.wordpress.com/about/
youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/
2 links that explains it, but it is a historical difference, majority of the world (90%) being Sunnis. I have friends that have gone from Shia to Sunni.
I respect Shias, as they have a lot of love for the Ahlal-Bayt(family of Prophet) but we as Sunnis also have such love for the Ahlal-Bayt. I also friends that have gone from Sunni to Shia to Sunni in search of their love for the Ahlal Bayt,
However even amongst Shias they disagree who the 12imams are and are further categorized into twelvers, Ismaelis etc…
M
MissyB786
Guest
Again, this is why Sunnis believe Shia hadiths to be fabricated. The Quran calls Aisha(ra) the mother of the believers as well as his other wives, so it means 2 things:Ruben, This is another point of contention between Sunnis and Shias. Shias don’t believe she was ever married at 6 and consummated the marriage at 9. This is rejected by the shia as a false story narrated by Aisha herself. Shias point to other contradictory narrations which point to her being much much older when she was married to the Prophet including narrations which state she was previously married to a man named Jubair before divorcing him to marry the Prophet.
Also, shias believe Aisha married in secret after the Prophet’s death on her way to the battle of the camel. There are numerous historical records that point to this.
- No one can marry them as you cannot marry ur mother, as anyone marrying them would have boasted they married a Prophet’s wife
- A mother is not just by title, you also respect ur mother, the way Shias criticize Aisha(ra) is offensive to Sunnis, just as Christians would be offended is someone were to criticize the virgin Mary(ra). There are some that claim she is not virgin Mary(ra) just as Shias will also claim all sorts about Aisha(ra).
So I’m just stating what Sunnis beliefs here.
M
MissyB786
Guest
Just to clarify some of ur points here:The answer to that question depends on who you ask. It would also depend on your definition of political leadership. Leadership means different things to different people
The Sunnis believe Muhammad (PBUH&HF) is a spiritual leader but not a political leader. Even though he was a military commander and the appointed Judge in Madina in which he judged on religious and non-religious affairs. Maybe because Sunnis believe Muhammad (PBUH&HF) to be infallible when it comes to matters of religion but they see him as a normal person when it comes to worldly affairs.
In Shia theology Imamat (Leadership of Mankind) is one of the 5 pillars of faith and is absolutely essential to our belief system. Shias believe that all prophets are infallible in that they don’t sin, they don’t forget, and they don’t make mistakes in all affairs spiritual and otherwise. Prophets have to be infallible because God commands us to follow them. In other words God commands me not to sin, He also commands me to follow the guidance of a prophet for my salvation. If that prophet sins, or forgets, or makes mistakes then he could potentially guide me into sin and so the concept of Infallibility is a rational necessity. This concept is also related to another pillar of faith, Adl’ (Divine Justice) in which we believe God is ultimately just and does not subject his creation to injustice. An example would be requiring us to follow a person who sins, makes mistakes, or forgets.
The Shia also believe that the rank of Imamat (the position of a divinely-appointed leader) is higher than that of prophethood. An Imam has authority over all the creation even angels and it becomes irrelevant at that point whether or not he is accepted by people. In our view Muhammad (PBUH&HF) was an Imam and so in this context he is a spiritual leader and a political leader to those who follow him. We don’t differentiate between the two.
Imam Ali (as) as an example was removed from state affairs by the 1st and 2nd Caliph, As an example, if the Caliph dispatches a military campaign and the Imam forbids his followers from participating. They would have to oblige with the Imam’s request regardless of the Caliphs orders.
I know this was a mouthful. My apologies for being long winded.
- Sunnis believe Muhammed(PBUH) to be BOTH spiritual and political leader, so ur point is made on just ur opinion.
- That infallibility of Imams, the opinion that the Imams cannot sin, or know everything puts them in a level of a Prophet, which Sunnis do not believe as Muhammed(PBUH) was the last prophet. There is evidence from Shia hadiths that Ali(ra) claimed he didn’t know everything. Also Ali(ra) married his daughters to the companions that Shias don’t like, why wud he do such a thing?
- Imams being higher than Prophethood, Abraham(PBUH) was assigned a higher rank as Imam, only by the will of God. So how comes Muhammed(PBUH) was never given that title, so why would the Shia Imams be given a higher title than the Prophet, when Sunnis regards Muhammed(PBUH) the best of mankind. I have never read any evidence with Muhammed(PBUH) calling himself imam,
- the 12imams have no divine knowledge or power, else we would have endless chains of Prophets and the Muhammed(PBUH) declared himself the last prophet.
- the beliefs come from Shia hadiths, which Sunnis believe most to be fabricated and would be interesting to post it here, but I think it will make things more complicated for people that r unaware of hadiths, please post on Sunniforum.com if you wish.
M
MissyB786
Guest
numerous documented records on both sides (Sunni & Shia) to reasonably conclude she remarried after the prophet. There is a recurring theme in the Quran and the hadiths of warning the wives of the prophet against being lewd and engaging in clear immorality. Qur’an 3:30 and the hadith “whichever one of you (wives) fears Allah, and does not commit a clear immorality… will remain as my wife in the hereafter” are just 2 such examples. And so it is not improbable for the wives to be immoral.
One example that all Muslim will agree on is that Aisha introduced the concept of nursing adult men. The sunni hadiths in their most reliable sources are peppered with Aisha’s narrations around advocating for the breastfeeding of grown men. This is hardly a model of a faithfully practicing woman.
Furthermore, Qur’an 66:10 was revealed regarding Aisha and her co-conspirator Hafsa. In the verse they are described as unbelievers and likened to the wives Noah and Lot who **betrayed **their husbands. The verse is intended to remind Aisha and Hafsa that their marriage to the prophet (PBUH&HF) will not benefit them if they don’t reform.
Al-Qummi in his commentary of the Quran 66:10 narrates that when Aisha sought to travel to Basra in preparation for the battle of the camel to fight Imam Ali (as). Talha ibn Ubaydullah compelled her by saying “It is not permissible for you to leave (your home) without a Mahram” and so she gave herself to him in marriage. Tafseer al-qummi vol.2 page 377. A mahram in this context is a male relative who would accompany her in her journey. She gave herself to Talha in marriage so that her journey to Basra would be permissible according to Sharia. This is not improbable because we already know that Talha openly advocated his desire to marry the prophet’s wives many years before this incident and in particular he expressed his desire to marry Aisha. The opportunity to do so presented itself with the Battle of the Camel named after the Camel Aisha rode on her way to Basra.
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- u quote the Quran and a hadith with no evidence, linking the 2 together making assumptions about Aisha(ra) I have looked up the Quran ayah 3:30 and can’t find anything about Aisha(ra), the Ayah applies to everyone?
- U say SUNNI hadiths say such and such about Aisha(ra) and that ‘This is hardly a model of a faithfully practicing woman’ but please generate the hadiths rather than quoting, because for all I know u cud be quoting of the top of ur head?
I for one wud go into a marriage for life ideally, not for 24h for the guy to use me for *** and then have no obligations afterwards. Would u ever take part in Mut’aa?
But neways if u have hadiths to back ur claim, plus dont just give a hadith it requires an explanation which usuay requires a scholar.
- Furthermore, Qur’an 66:10 was revealed regarding Aisha and her co-conspirator Hafsa. In the verse they are described as unbelievers and likened to the wives Noah and Lot. The verse is intended to remind Aisha and Hafsa that their marriage to the prophet (PBUH&HF) will not benefit them if they don’t reform.
Whats the point of having a revelation to warn people if they can’t repent, that means im doomed for the rest of my life. Lols u soo have taken ur own interpretation of it.
- I have never in my life read about Aisha(ra) marrying anyone, how has ayah 66:10 got nething to do with her travelling. So she has to be confined to her home and can never leave the house because she doesn’t have a mahrem? This is why people have such opinion of Muslim. BTW Talha was married to Aisha(ra) sister Umm Kulthum not her, and I’m pretty sure her sister would have said a thing or to about it if that was the case. Just another distortation by Shias.
sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?30150-The-Battle-of-Jamal-(Bassoorah-Camel
‘his is not improbable because we already know that Talha openly advocated his desire to marry the prophet’s wives many years before this incident and in particular he expressed his desire to marry Aisha. The opportunity to do so presented itself with the Battle of the Camel named after the Camel Aisha rode on her way to Basra.’
Because everyone wanted the honor of being married to A Prophet’s wife, but instead he was married to Umm Kulthum, her sister.
I don’t know how much longer I can go on as there is a LOT of false claims, but ur claims about Aisha(ra) are just as absurd that atheist make claims about the virgin Mary(ra) and is offensive to Sunnis. Please bring them forth with EXACT hadith references, rather than in a Hadith?!
M
MissyB786
Guest
Again if Ali(ra) was not there, why did he give allegiance to Abu Bakr(ra), if he hated him so much, why has he never uttered a bad word against him, why did Ali(ra) name his sons after him and other companions which Shia’s dislike.Both Shia and Sunnis see the appointment of a sucessor to be important.
The appointment of Abu Bakr as the successor or Caliph was made in secret by a small party of companions while Imam Ali (as) was in the middle of preparing the funeral of the prophet (PBUH&HF). Sunnis explain the prophet did not appoint a successor and therefore it was up to the community to select one. When asked why they couldn’t wait until after the funeral was over, they explain that having a successor is absolutely critical to the survival of the new Muslim community.
The Shia on the other hand maintain that the earth is never left without an infallible Imam to act as God’s representative on earth from Adam (as) to our present day. In some cases the Imam was a prophet in other cases he was not. For example, we believe the Imam After Moses (as) was Joshua Ben Noon (as), the Imam after Jesus (as) was Simon Peter (as) and so on until the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF), and the imams after him are Ali (as), his two children Hassan and Hussein (as) and 9 descendants from the children of Hussein (as) in succession from father to son until our present Imam Al-Mahdi (as) who will reappear when God grants him permission.
I’m sorry to say, thinks like this make me realize the numerous fabrications by Shias. Hence Sunnis disagree with them. Just commen sense makes me realise these claim to be false, like I wudn’t name my son after someone I dislike.
Also there are different types of Shias who all disagree on the succession so some have 12imams, some have 6 some are called Ismaeilis etc…
The are also difference amongst Sunnis, but we focus on relegious difference on what is the best way to worship God, but we don’t waste our time arguing about political differences of succession.
The companions which Shias hate so much, are probably in fact the best lovers of the Ahlal-Bayt(family of Prophet(PBUH)) as can be read in this website.
youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2012/05/07/part-5-nature-of-relationship-between-ahlebaytra-and-abubakarra/
I suggest Famdigy, u reread history and know there is 2 sides to a story and focus on ur relationship with God, rather than wasting ur time cursing companions because of fabrications.
J
jakasaki
Guest
Missy quote ~
This is exactly how we feel when Islam makes “false claims” against our religion/belief/Bible/Jesus/etc… etc…I don’t know how much longer I can go on as there is a LOT of false claims, but ur claims about Aisha(ra) are just as absurd that atheist make claims about the virgin Mary(ra) and is offensive to Sunnis.
It is offensive to us Christians.
F
famdigy
Guest
Matthew, the differences are not just political as was suggested here. It’s much wider than that. We have differences in ideology, we have differences in who God is, we have differences in the Qur’an (not the text but our understanding of it) we have differences in the Prophet Muhammad (p) and his character. We have differences in our sharia.A question for our Muslim brethren: What is the difference between Shia and Sunni Islam? Why do the adherents of these two areas of Islam have such antagonism against each other?
It’s a single sided antagonism. Sunnis can not stand anyone with a different viewpoint than theirs and they will stand at nothing to eliminate that viewpoint. They consider Shias to be Kaffir (unbelievers) and therefore they consider it ok to kill Shias and take their property for the muslims as booty. Pakistan a few years ago was notorious for suicide bombers blowing themselves up in Shia mosques, killing children, women, and elderly. You also see this in Iraq especially during the Muharram season where shias gather to commemorate the martyrdom of Hussein (as) where Sunni terrorists would carry out suicide attacks against the Shias.
M
MissyB786
Guest
Jakasaki, I understand the diference between Muslims and Christians but our beliefs that Jesus not being the son of God, should not offend you, as we still highly respect Jesus(PBUH) and the Virgin Mary(ra)This is exactly how we feel when Islam makes “false claims” against our religion/belief/Bible/Jesus/etc… etc…
It is offensive to us Christians.
The reasons why I find Shia beliefs to be offensive, as the claims are of adultary, and cursing of the companions.
You would not like it if Muslims cursed Jesus and his disciples and the virgin Mary, which we don’t so how can sunnis accept shias cursing the companions and the Prophet’s(PBUH) wife.
Believing is one thing, but cursing is another.
M
MissyB786
Guest
I cannot understand Shia veiwpoint, but doesn’t mean it is OK to kill them, I know many people that have produced literature and are in discussions with Shias to refute their beliefs with evidence. Please read some of them in the links below.Matthew, the differences are not just political as was suggested here. It’s much wider than that. We have differences in ideology, we have differences in who God is, we have differences in the Qur’an (not the text but our understanding of it) we have differences in the Prophet Muhammad (p) and his character. We have differences in our sharia.
It’s a single sided antagonism. Sunnis can not stand anyone with a different viewpoint than theirs and they will stand at nothing to eliminate that viewpoint. They consider Shias to be Kaffir (unbelievers) and therefore they consider it ok to kill Shias and take their property for the muslims as booty. Pakistan a few years ago was notorious for suicide bombers blowing themselves up in Shia mosques, killing children, women, and elderly. You also see this in Iraq especially during the Muharram season where shias gather to commemorate the martyrdom of Hussein (as) where Sunni terrorists would carry out suicide attacks against the Shias.
youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/
answersforshiafriend.wordpress.com/about/
islamic-forum.net/
Unfortunately there will always be some ignorant people that think they know about religion from all religious parties, **So please don’t categorize suicide bombers and terrorists under the sunni banner. **
Your beliefs about these terrorists are just as bad as what islamaphobes believe about muslims terrrorist.** I could say the same about about the Alawite shia terrorists in Syria killing thousands of Innocent women and Children or the KKK about christianity, but I would rather look at the core beliefs of a religion rather than the people. **And the core beliefs is something I disagree with and have given evidence in the links posted.
M
MissyB786
Guest
N btw, the are rulings that Shias are not considered Kaffir, except those that deny the Quran. So even if u decide not to agree with the sahabas that is ur decision, but cursing them in ur prayers. I am sorry I will not be involved in a religion that curses people Muslim or Non-Muslim. Or a religion that practices temporary marriage which is just as bad as prostitution. BTW i have shia friends as well, don’t mean I hate them n want them dead, I just disagree with their beliefs. If I can I will explain to them and have discussions with them, and give them evidence. and if they disagree cool we’ll still go out to cinema or eat, that’s a decision they have to face with God, as will I.
U quoted a reference, did u check the background of the author, u quote Tafsir of Qummi, a Shia Tafsir. The author of this Tafsir was not a Muslim because he believed that Quran was corrupted by Sahaba.
So u r using a reference by someone who would be classified a Kafir. Unless u are of the shia sect that also believe that to?
U quoted a reference, did u check the background of the author, u quote Tafsir of Qummi, a Shia Tafsir. The author of this Tafsir was not a Muslim because he believed that Quran was corrupted by Sahaba.
So u r using a reference by someone who would be classified a Kafir. Unless u are of the shia sect that also believe that to?
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