Should apes be given certain rights?

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AFerri48

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I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure apes have the highest capacity of intelligence of all animals. Some, such as Koko the Ape are famous for being able to perform sign language, and perform certain acts such as cooking and using tools.

Would you be okay with certain apes being given certain rights such as the right to life?
 
Let us start by giving our own children the right to life before we get carried away with PET like demands for equality of animal rights. All animals have the right to be treated in a humane fashion regardless of intellect. This is even more urgent in our dealing with our own mentally ill or challenged who demand our love and attention in their very weakness. Our Lord demands it. Our humanity will be judged by how we treat all creatures. Our spiritual worth will be found in how firstly, we treat our fellow man.
 
First, let me ask why intelligence would merit right to life vs. an unintelligent creature.
 
I think it’s important to remember that the rights that humans have or should be accorded are due to our human dignity; we are made in the image and likeness of God and have an immortal soul. This is very different than ascribing rights to humans based on a utiliatrian model. In other words, we have a right to life because we are human, not because we are able to reason to write or communicate using language or do other things that we see most humans capable of accomplishing. Indeed, even before we have these abilities and even if we never get them, we still maintain the right to life because we have inherent human dignity.

Apes and other primates, although intelligent and beautiful creatures, are not made in the image and likeness of God and do not share our human dignity. We must be good stewards of all living creatures and treat them humanely, but they do not have the same rights as humans and so they should not be accorded the “right to life.” We can legitimately choose to end their lives for just reasons, whereas we do not have the right to steward over human life in the same way.
 
Beyond the right not to be wantonly killed (which should pertain to all animals IMNAAHO), no, not to apes, nor whales, nor Dolphins, et al, until we master treating human beings as, well, human beings.

ICXC NIKA.
 
nodito said:
I think it’s important to remember that the rights that humans have or should be accorded are due to our human dignity; we are made in the image and likeness of God and have an immortal soul. This is very different than ascribing rights to humans based on a utiliatrian model. In other words, we have a right to life because we are human, not because we are able to reason to write or communicate using language or do other things that we see most humans capable of accomplishing. Indeed, even before we have these abilities and even if we never get them, we still maintain the right to life because we have inherent human dignity.

Apes and other primates, although intelligent and beautiful creatures, are not made in the image and likeness of God and do not share our human dignity. We must be good stewards of all living creatures and treat them humanely, but they do not have the same rights as humans and so they should not be accorded the “right to life.” We can legitimately choose to end their lives for just reasons, whereas we do not have the right to steward over human life in the same way.
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Exactly this. Great post, nodito.
 
It seems there is a systematic dismantling underway vis-à-vis the truths revealed in Genesis. God created us. He created us male and female. He gave us dominion over the Earth. He commanded us to be fruitful and multiply. He made covenants with Adam, Noah, and Abraham. And it seems as if people don’t care anymore about the real consequences when those covenants are broken.

People in modernity claim to be atheists or irreligious, they claim to worship nothing and have no faith. But the true problem is, as it has always been, paganism. People worship idols, they put their faith in futile and worthless things.

Animal-rights activists and environmentalists tend to share a common trait: they blame humans for the plight of the world. For whatever ails us, humans are to blame. We must have brought this on ourselves. And the common, final solution? Racial suicide. Exterminate ourselves before we can hurt the Earth or the rest of creation any more. Humans who wish to exalt animals secretly wish to debase humans. They are filled with self-loathing and the denial of reality and truth. They are a pernicious voice with an agenda of Population Control.

All it takes to cure this is an open mind and an honest reading of the Book of Genesis. Will the world listen before it is too late?
 
All animals deserve protection from abuse and arbitrary murder. They are all created by God.
 
God also told the fish and birds to be fruitful and multiply.

I think there is more to paganism than the usual first thought of people worshiping idols, I respect and try to take care of the environment around me, I love nature and feel very peaceful out in the “wilderness” sometimes more than anywhere else.

Wasn’t it the first two humans that brought sin into the world? All the unrest, human and the earth by disobeying God…🤷

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.– Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

I tend to agree.

Humans AND animals should be protected to the best of our human abilities 👍

Unfortunately humans and animals get in the way of what some people call progress…

*If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. – Francis of Assisi, Italian Catholic preacher *
 
JMJ
Heaven, help us!
I see in this forum much that is said that is directly contrary to the teachings of the Church. I suspect that this forum is not being edited by a cleric, nor by anyone else with even a smidgen of theological training in the Post-Pius X World. St. Pius X taught that much of what is found in the Bible–especially the first 11 Chapter of Genesis–are not literally true, but myth. (PS: Anthropologists have known for some time that there’s a whole lot of myth, fable and legend in the rest of the Bible as well.) Roman Catholic Universities in the United States (probably elsewhere too but I don’t know at first hand) teach that evolution, i.e., that natural selection is responsible for the origin of species, is scientific truth. I repeat: those who argue from the literal truth of the Bible are going in direct contradiction of the Magisterium.

PS: Contradicting the Magisterium publicly is, in the theology of sin, a grave matter. See Catechism of the RCC 2d Edn 1858 et seq. You people are in deep doo-doo with the Holy Spirit.

Now I am going to wait for the uproar to die down before I to tell you what I think of human rights and this forum’s inhumanity, which latter problem I find unworthy of our species, not to say unworthy of the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Simon_Magus said:
JMJ
Heaven, help us!
I see in this forum much that is said that is directly contrary to the teachings of the Church. I suspect that this forum is not being edited by a cleric, nor by anyone else with even a smidgen of theological training in the Post-Pius X World. St. Pius X taught that much of what is found in the Bible–especially the first 11 Chapter of Genesis–are not literally true, but myth. (PS: Anthropologists have known for some time that there’s a whole lot of myth, fable and legend in the rest of the Bible as well.) Roman Catholic Universities in the United States (probably elsewhere too but I don’t know at first hand) teach that evolution, i.e., that natural selection is responsible for the origin of species, is scientific truth. I repeat: those who argue from the literal truth of the Bible are going in direct contradiction of the Magisterium.

PS: Contradicting the Magisterium publicly is, in the theology of sin, a grave matter. See Catechism of the RCC 2d Edn 1858 et seq. You people are in deep doo-doo with the Holy Spirit.

Now I am going to wait for the uproar to die down before I to tell you what I think of human rights and this forum’s inhumanity, which latter problem I find unworthy of our species, not to say unworthy of the Roman Catholic Church.
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So it is not true that God created us. I am contradicting the Magisterium. It is not true that He created us male and female, the Church did away with that teaching. It is not true that He commanded us to be fruitful and multiply, that’s Bronze Age thinking. It is not true that He gave us dominion over the Earth, get with the Democratic program. Okay, thanks for stepping in and correcting my unCatholic teachings!
 
Simon_Magus said:
JMJ
Heaven, help us!
I see in this forum much that is said that is directly contrary to the teachings of the Church.
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Although true that there are many posters on CAF that post in contradiction to Church teaching, I haven’t seen anything on this thread that would warrant such criticism. Who specifically are you referring to? It can be helpful for the rest of us if you quote the problematic portions of a previous poster and then explain what you think is flawed in his/her logic.
 
Simon_Magus said:
I suspect that this forum is not being edited by a cleric, nor by anyone else with even a smidgen of theological training in the Post-Pius X World.
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The forums aren’t edited by anyone. They are moderated but otherwise open to everyone for the free exchange of ideas. You, like everyone else, are free to post whatever you wish even if it is in direct contradiction to Church teaching. Others are free to correct you.
 
AFerri48 said:
I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure apes have the highest capacity of intelligence of all animals. Some, such as Koko the Ape are famous for being able to perform sign language, and perform certain acts such as cooking and using tools.

Would you be okay with certain apes being given certain rights such as the right to life?
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What sort of rights are you envisioning? Voting rights? Right to bear arms?
 
Are you referring to apes in the wild? Or in captivity?

I’m pretty sure apes in the wild will occasionally kill each other with no regard for the morality of the issue, over issues of dominance in the group, or mating, or territory. And they don’t really care what we would have to say about other apes’ right to life. We don’t really have jurisdiction over them. It’s just apes acting according to their nature.

On the other hand, apes that are in captivity, we have to treat them as humanely as possible, because to treat them inhumanely would be for us to behave less than human. As to whether apes should be in captivity in the first place, that’s a different question.
 
Any such rights should never supercede the rights of a human being, nor be considered on the same level. But otherwise I am in favor of allowing for more protections for highly intelligent animals like dolphins, bonobos, chimps, etc… Moreso than we’d allow for other less intelligent mammals like dogs and cats and horses, and moreso than’d we’d allow for ants and spiders. It must be clear that they do not have immortal souls and are not on par with us.

We certainly have our own problems with humanity to work out, but I would not oppose such protections in today’s society simoly because we haven’t solved all of our own issues yet.
 
If I had to choose an animal to be given this right, I’d probably pick chickens or cattle first. All animals have the ability to feel. That alone is enough for me to be against their wholesale slaughter for our consumption. It really depends on what is meant by ‘right to life’ however. If you mean that animals would not be intentionally killed for human purposes, then I’m in. I am vegan however, so I’m hardly a hard sell.
 
simpleas said:
God also told the fish and birds to be fruitful and multiply.

I think there is more to paganism than the usual first thought of people worshiping idols, I respect and try to take care of the environment around me, I love nature and feel very peaceful out in the “wilderness” sometimes more than anywhere else.

Wasn’t it the first two humans that brought sin into the world? All the unrest, human and the earth by disobeying God…🤷

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.– Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

I tend to agree.

Humans AND animals should be protected to the best of our human abilities 👍

Unfortunately humans and animals get in the way of what some people call progress…

*If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men. – Francis of Assisi, Italian Catholic preacher *
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Great post, Im an animal lover myself, even as a child, Ive always had more love for animals than other people I saw, I wondered how a person could knowingly abuse or mistreat an animal, eventually it came to really bother me, I cant even bear to watch stories of animal abuse anymore, its really effected me to an extreme level, to see how cruel some people can be.

In many ways, I view animal abuse worse than someone abusing another person, as the animal knows nothing but love, they simply cannot hate, its not in them.

I donate money and time to worthy animal causes and have for awhile, in fact, I could probably become an animal rights activist pretty easily.

I used to get so upset about these abusive people, and used to dream of just 10 minutes alone with them behind closed doors, but am now trying instead to pray for them, for God to make them see how wrong they are in their actions.

I think animals deserve more rights, I think animal abuse should be investigated, treated in the same way as abuse of a person, but do not think apes or other unusually intelligent animals deserve the same rights as humans, as a whole.
 
There are already is the granting of a right to life for animals. There are laws that protect the unborn and born of certain species. For instance sea turtles have more legal rights and protection than humans.
Elizium23 said:
Animal-rights activists and environmentalists tend to share a common trait: they blame humans for the plight of the world. For whatever ails us, humans are to blame. We must have brought this on ourselves. And the common, final solution? Racial suicide. Exterminate ourselves before we can hurt the Earth or the rest of creation any more. Humans who wish to exalt animals secretly wish to debase humans. They are filled with self-loathing and the denial of reality and truth. They are a pernicious voice with an agenda of Population Control.
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It is no accident that in our time animals have been elevated and man degraded. Man by his nature can ascend to be more like God or fall to be more like the brutes. We have chosen the latter.
 
exnihilo said:
There are already is the granting of a right to life for animals. There are laws that protect the unborn and born of certain species. For instance sea turtles have more legal rights and protection than humans.

It is no accident that in our time animals have been elevated and man degraded. Man by his nature can ascend to be more like God or fall to be more like the brutes. We have chosen the latter.
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Yes not to mention another glut of lawyers defending the rights of dumb animals. It’s ridiculous. Yes - people should treat animals kindly, but some are meant for food so they will be slaughtered. What sort of rights are people envisioning? People own pets, and livestock, so they should be the ones who are responsible for their animals, but not unduly prosecuted if something goes wrong with the beasts. I can see this getting wildly out of control. It’s a slippery slope.
 
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