Should elderly cantor be asked to "retire?"

[SMHW]

We have a sticky situation in our choir. Ours is a small parish with a choir of maybe 8 on a good day. Most of us take turns serving as cantor. We have a new director of music who has a graduate degree in vocal performance and pedagogy, and he is really struggling with our oldest choir-member. “Betty” (not her real name) is a dear lady who has been a loyal choir member for years and years, and she is also very active in other parish activities. But Betty is pushing 80 and has some medical issues that affect her singing, and also dentures which do not fit very well. It is very difficult to understand the text when she sings the responsorial psalm. When the old choir director was there, he let her have her turn with the other cantors, but this new guy would really like to get Betty to retire. He avoids scheduling her for major feast days and has tried to coach her one-on-one, but it hasn’t really helped. I have overheard parishioners commenting on how awful poor Betty sounds. We all wish that she would somehow realize that her voice is long past its prime, but so far she doesn’t get it. So we have a dilemma: on one hand, Betty is very attached to serving as cantor, and if we ask her to step down, she will be very hurt (she noticed that she was not scheduled during the Christmas season, and I saw her crying over this). OTOH, if we continue to let her sing as cantor, the quality of that day’s music ministry will suffer, and some days it’s pretty bad. As assistant organist, I am kind of stuck in the middle here. Has anyone here dealt with a similar situation? How did you handle it?

Our parish had a situation with one of our cantors. She was in her late thirties when she developed some kind of voice problem (possibly nodules in the vocal chords?) which caused her once beautiful voice to be quite off key. Our parish had a reputation for having exceptionally good music so this cantor stood out. Enough parishioners complained that the pastor told the music director to “fix the problem”. The music director eventually had to tell her that she needed to take some time off to see if she could do anything about her voice. She would still be in charge of directing the children’s choir. Yes, this did result in some hurt feelings. She is still a member of the parish but she is no longer active in our music program.

But this problem is a bit different from the situation with Betty in that our cantor was actually paid for her services. A paid cantor really ought to be held to a higher standard than an unpaid volunteer. But even volunteers should be expected to have a certain level of competency. (In general, our current cantors are no longer paid specifically to sing. But some parish staffers who also cantor count that time towards their total number of weekly hours.)

In the case of this small choir, I wonder if the solution might be for the music director to revamp the way cantors are scheduled. Perhaps the whole idea of taking turns needs to change. Then Betty would not be so obviously singled out as a problem.

Does your parish have weekday masses? Does Betty attend? I am wondering if there is some other Mass that might find Betty to be a blessing, even if her voice is not what it might be. Is there some other musical function she could help with? I find it hard to believe that Betty is unaware of the problem with her voice unless she also has a hearing problem.

 

[Albertine]

There is a lot being said here about being able to understand the words of the psalm and how critical it is but frankly, if the words were not that decernable but the woman had a lovely voice that was always on key, I have to wonder if the issue would ever have come up.

 

[Sarabande]

This is a sticky situation. I know how hard that could be. I remember at my childhood parish, there was this older man who had such a horrible voice. It was so hard to listen to him even as kids. But he was such a nice, gentle man and you knew he wasn’t doing it out of any ego trip. (I would have no problem telling an ego-maniac cantor with a horrible voice to hang it up if I were the boss.) When I was in high school and got to sort of know him in the church choir, I knew that this man was doing it because he loved to sing and thought he was giving back to God and the church as a humble person. Unfortunately, though, he was a joke to many people in that congregation. People would make faces or laugh when he sang. I felt horribly for him and wished that someone close to him would have gently broke it to him to perhaps think about stopping so that he would not be made fun of any longer.

Anyway, as previously stated, the most important role of the cantor is to sing the psalm and do it correctly with singing ability and correct pronunciation. Leading the congregation in hymns really isn’t as important. Most congregations can do that without the use of the cantor, especially once they get used to not hearing an amplified voice over theirs. And the only time they are really needed during those parts of the mass if the congregation is having trouble. If the cantor role is as important as it is made out to be, and the said cantor isn’t fulfilling his/her duties correctly, then it is the responsibility of the person in charge to relieve that cantor from the duties.

That said, every parish is different. As a professional singer and musician, as well as a professional cantor, it is sometimes extremely difficult listening to another cantor butcher everything from wrong notes, poor or no musicianship, bad diction, emoting, etc. It’s enough to wish for no music at all. Although, I do know that some parishes are really trying to do their best and give their best. Some parishes might just have 8 singers, like your own. Other parishes may have an abundance of gifted singers or singer/musicians or might have the finances to hire professional musicians. Some parishes might be small and close-knit so the dynamic there with “firing” a long-time member would be extremely hard and could cause more harm than good.

Based on what you described with your parish situation, I would say let “Betty” sing and leave it up to the people close to her (like her family) to tell her the truth if they feel the need to do it. If she was a professional cantor, that would be a totally different story. But she is a volunteer, very old, and this probably is a lifeline to her. Perhaps let her cantor the early morning masses when making up the schedule.

I mean, if the congregation really is that upset with her, and I can also understand how it would be hard for them to listen to especially if sacred music is a major way of prayer for them, they should perhaps find a way to tell her themselves (which I doubt they’d have the chutzpah to do and would rather leave it up to someone else do the dirty work for them), do some volunteering themselves if they have decent voices, or find the money to pay for a professional cantor. They really can’t expect professional quality (if that is what they are wanting) if they’re not paying for it. Thus, their criticism should be based on the level that they have. (I don’t critique volunteer cantors, for instance, at the same level as I would critique professional singers.) Of course, you sometimes do get some very nice singers and excellent musicians, but you never really know what you are going to get.

 

[Layman]

“When I was in high school and got to sort of know him in the church choir, I knew that this man was doing it because he loved to sing and thought he was giving back to God and the church as a humble person. Unfortunately, though, he was a joke to many people in that congregation. People would make faces or laugh when he sang.”

Off-key singing is very distracting. It is grating if you have an ear for music. It can introduce a comical effect out of keeping with the solemnity Mass. In my opinion, you offer your best when participating in a Mass. Deliberately allowing bad singing is not right.

Someone should have the courage to sit down with the lady and explain why she can’t sing in the choir any more. If she’s been with you a long time, a present would be appropriate.

I think it’s worse to skirt the issue and slowly ‘freeze her out’. That will make her cry all right. It creates a sense of not being valued and wanted and being excluded. Let the priest, perhaps, or the choirmaster, tell her the truth, gently, to her face, in private. Thank her for her many years of service.

You could also find her something else to do, something important. A real job, not a made-up one, if she’s keep to help.

 

[Shin]

People need to man up here, and face the fact it is time to tell her to retire.

Voices age. Eventually they can’t sing. This is a fact. Everyone has a responsibility to prepare for this.

It does no one any good to drag it out, nor does it do anyone any good to skirt the issue and waddle around it like cowards.

It’s time. Age does these things. Eventually it becomes time for older people not to drive, not to do many things. This is hard, but has to be faced, or everyone gets hurt. It does no favors to drag it out.

Tell her gently and firmly it’s time. Do your best for after care without doing something stupid or harmfully sentimental without being good that way too.

 

[Sarabande]

"When I was in high school and got to sort of know him in the church choir, I knew that this man was doing it because he loved to sing and thought he was giving back to God and the church as a humble person. Unfortunately, though, he was a joke to many people in that congregation. People would make faces or laugh when he sang."

Off-key singing is very distracting. It is grating if you have an ear for music. It can introduce a comical effect out of keeping with the solemnity Mass. In my opinion, you offer your best when participating in a Mass. Deliberately allowing bad singing is not right.

I agree. I’m a professional musician, so it is a horrible thing to hear. Personally, I really don’t believe non-musicians should be in these positions of cantor, instrumentalist or music director, especially since they are supposed to be important roles in the Church. In a perfect world, for me, the music at mass would always consist of decent to excellent musicians (paid or unpaid). Volunteer choirs with a mix of non-musicians and musicians can do very well if led by an excellent musician and director, so that is a little different. Otherwise I would rather have no music at all.

But this is not an ideal world and there are many parishes that don’t have musicians either volunteering or picking up paid positions. For that older gentleman, I had no right or position at the time to tell him stop. I was just a kid. It was up to the pastor or the music director to have done so. In the individual situation of this “Betty”, I think because she had already by permitted to sing for so long, it could do more harm than good by “firing” her. To someone of that age and how she was described by the OP, cutting her off could possibly harm her emotionally, mentally and physically. My father has had enough elderly patients in his practice where similar situations occurred and these people just withered away and died fairly quickly afterwards. It happened to my grandfather. Unfortunately, these kinds of situations arise when there are volunteers. No one, for understandable reasons, wants to hurt people’s feelings. It is sometimes easier to let go of someone if the person is on a payroll, unlikable or if the volunteer is very unlikable. As much as it would be much more simple to see things black and white, it is, unfortunately, not always the case.

 

[Sarabande]

Tell her gently and firmly it’s time. Do your best for after care without doing something stupid or harmfully sentimental without being good that way too.

Just thought of this… perhaps the OP or the music director could speak with this lady’s family or someone really close to her to tell her the truth of the matter?

 

[Shin]

Just thought of this… perhaps the OP or the music director could speak with this lady’s family or someone really close to her to tell her the truth of the matter?

Well, one does want a person for her to talk to about it and sympathize afterwards (properly that is).

Regardless however there is a person responsible for telling her – and that is the person in charge, who determines who is in and who is out of choir. That is the person who has to take responsibility.

Unless that person has a personality flaw that prevents him from doing it properly, he should be the one to do it. If he delegates the message it to an assistant that is OK too, the wisdom of doing that depends on the situation and people involved for whether it is good or bad.

Generally though he should do it directly. That is the way a person with responsibility behaves.

 

[Sarabande]

Well, one does want a person for her to talk to about it and sympathize afterwards (properly that is).

Regardless however there is a person responsible for telling her – and that is the person in charge, who determines who is in and who is out of choir. That is the person who has to take responsibility.

Unless that person has a personality flaw that prevents him from doing it properly, he should be the one to do it. If he delegates the message it to an assistant that is OK too, the wisdom of doing that depends on the situation and people involved for whether it is good or bad.

Generally though he should do it directly. That is the way a person with responsibility behaves.

Yes, generally-speaking, that is true. I think, though, based on how this person is described, it actually could be more responsible to have someone close to her be truthful to her about her lack of voice and ability. In the end, only the people involved in this situation could really make that call. Anything that we suggest or opine is pure conjecture based on the info given to us since we do not know this elderly lady personally.

 

[Shin]

Yes, generally-speaking, that is true. I think, though, based on how this person is described, it actually could be more responsible to have someone close to her be truthful to her about her lack of voice and ability. In the end, only the people involved in this situation could really make that call. Anything that we suggest or opine is pure conjecture based on the info given to us since we do not know this elderly lady personally.

Well, regarding human relationships this could be the case.

 

[Middleman]

This situation has been made difficult because it should have been addressed years ago. It sounds like your church had a lax music program. You are going to have to phase into a more quality program gradually and tactfully. It sounds like Betty will have to be grandfathered in, meanwhile don’t let this poor stewardship of your music program continue with younger versions of Betty.

Therefore, I vote to let the old bird keep singing, she’s 80 years old and doesn’t have too many years left.

 

[MarieVeronica]

Maybe we could start having small groups lead the psalm rather than soloists; ladies sing one verse, men the next, etc. I have seen that done at a neighboring parish, and it seems to work for them. I’ll suggest that to the choir director. There is safety in numbers!

Carrie… this is a good idea. In fact, it reminds me of an old episode of “I Love Lucy”. Do you remember that one? Lucy was going to sing, solo… during a play they were putting on. But her voice was so awful, that the chorus joined in with her, at all her parts. This could certainly be done, without “Betty” knowing it <and thereby, avoid hurting her feelings>. The choir director might just suggest it, as a “new” option; I don’t know what it would be called… “Group Cantor”? I’ve seen it done, occasionally… at my parish too.

Maybe he could implement this for the times when “Betty” is scheduled… saving the solo spots… for days when she’s not present? At 80 years of age… I would imagine there are a number of days… where she’s not in attendance.

Some people might think… “oh, that’s too much trouble for just one person”… but I wonder how Jesus would look at it? I wonder if He would think it “too much trouble”? Somehow, I don’t think so.

The Good Lord willing, we will ALL be 80… some day. God bless.