Should I become Lutheran?

[ChristMyLife]

I don’t really want to derail this thread, but when you started saying the Church shouldn’t dialogue with a totally depraved and evil world red flags went up for me.

I’m sure I could find current Magisterial teaching material which says something quite different, but you should start a new thread if you want to go down that road.

Just be careful, if the mods think you are questioning the validity of VII and people flag you (I usually never flag people, so you don’t have to worry when interacting with me) you can get your account suspended.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Not in the way you’re interpreting it, no.

The “sign of contradiction” in Lk 2:34 is talking about Jesus who will be a contradiction to the hypocritical religious authorities of his day who will push for him to be put to death.

 

[semper_catholicus]

Not everyone who shares the constant teachings of the Church is a Sedevcantist. You seem to speculate that a lot.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Even the extremely conservative gold standard of Traditional Catholic biblical thought, the Haydock Bible, says about Lk 2:34:

And for a sign which shall be contradicted, to signify that Christ, and his doctrine, should be as it were a mark, or butt, against whom the Jews should discharge the arrows and darts of their malice.

That passage refers to Christ being a thorn in the side of the hypocritical religious leaders of his day…

It’s got nothing to do with the Church being some institution which sits in the world to do nothing but condemn and contradict.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Not everyone who shares the constant teachings of the Church is a Sedevcantist. You seem to speculate that a lot.

You seem to imply that the “constant teachings of the Church” stand in contrast the teaching of the Church today.

I’m gonna say something which may either scandalize you or make you think of me as even more of a modernist than you already do.

I couldn’t care less what the Church spoke to 7th century Irish peasants or a 13th century Spanish Monarch. They aren’t me and I’m not them. What I care about is what the Church teaches ME to do and say and believe TODAY.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Not everyone who shares the constant teachings of the Church is a Sedevcantist.

And often times when I see very rigid traditionalists teaching things which seem to contradict the Church’s Living Magisterium, it’s because they are either sedes or SSPX sympathizers, etc.

 

[ChristMyLife]

I don’t disagree with anything you just said.

I’ve been on the same page as you with pretty much everything you said except the comment about interaction with the world.

 

[semper_catholicus]

What is “the living Magisterium?” Does that imply that there is a “dead Magisterium?”

 

[ChristMyLife]

What is “the living Magisterium?” Does that imply that there is a “dead Magisterium?”

I suppose.

The letter of the law kills but the spirit gives life. The past Magisterium could be considered the letter of the law and the living Magisterium considered the spirit as well as the letter of the law.

In fact, the letters of the law as laid out in old Magisterial pronouncements are widely taken out of context and used to attack the Church today.

As if the Church forgot about her past when making pronouncements today, only to have Mr. More Catholic than the Pope come and save the day.

 

[ChristMyLife]

I would oppose that too as it’s clearly wrong.

Sin can never be accepted as good or compromised with.

People who are sinners however must be accepted as good creations of God and interacted with to bring them closer to God.

It’s a difficult distinction to make and the two things can get crossed and screwed up though… (Either sin being accepted as good or good creatures being condemned as evil)

 

[Wampa]

Yes, please! About 85% of the last 25 posts are about traditionalists/modernism/Vatican II/etc. We discuss those topics all the time on CAF across dozens of threads. Can we have this one get back to the OP’s question?

There have been some really worthwhile contributions to the OP’s inquiry (which is a fairly unique one here on CAF, so I’d like it be allowed to continue). I’ll call out @JonNC, whose posts about Lutheranism I always find edifying. BTW, I was Lutheran for a short 5 years before I converted to Catholicism.

Edit: it looks like one of you had already done that in this thread: Fanatically religious people and being Godly (not exactly the same topics, but close, and consisting of the same posters). Thanks!