Should I continue dating someone who is pro abortion?

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Not to pick on you hasikelee, but this sort of thing just drives me crazy:

First you say…
hasikelee said:
She believes this probably for a variety of reasons ….it’s not a person yet, it’s not a person until week 10, month 6, birth, whatever.
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Then in the very next breath you say:
hasikelee said:
How do you feel, knowing she believes humans should have a legally-protected privilege to kill other humans for arbitrary reasons of power and liberty?
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But she doesn’t believe that really does she? You KNOW she doesn’t because you just told him in the previous paragraph that she didn’t. How can you therefore write the second statement that intentionally mischaracterizes the woman’s position?

I’m sorry to come down on you in particular, but this is really an issue. As long as pro-life people intentionally misrepresent the position of pro-choice people, we will make no progress.

What we need to do is stop lying to ourselves…NOBODY WANTS to kill a **baby. **The vast majority of women who have abortions don’t believe its a baby. Until we deal with that reality we can’t hope to solve this problem.
 
FlatAffect said:
I would end it. Anyone who is pro-choice has a faulty thought process and can’t tell the difference between right and wrong. When you say you are pro-choice, you are basically saying, “I’m selfish and proud of it!” Marriages should be based on selfless love.
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I’m sorry but there are too many assumptions here, a lack of genrational understanding etc…

Your love as a couple though, as stated should be on selfless love. However women who came of age in the 1960s have a VERY different perspective on Abortion and women’s rights than those who are currently in their 40, 30s or 20s.

Let us also remember that in the 1960s most protestant churches didn’t take a stance on abortion one way or another…

Let us also remember that this women may remember or know people who died from an illegal abortion. The abortion was wrong but everyone around them at the time told them is was their only option if they wanted to feed the children they already had.

So I would not dare assume that this is just some “selfish” person. I know MANY MANY wonderful loving women in that age group who are good christians but struggle with abortion because the idea of choice was so ingraned into them for so many years.

Finally abortion is not a cut and try issue if you look at it from a social standpoint. From our Faith standpoint it is VERY cut and dry, we believe it’s murder… plain and simple.

But if we made it illegal, what would the punishment be for someone who had one? Capital Punishment? The Church is against that as well.

Since the average person who gets an abortion already has two kids and has one because they don’t believe they can take care of more… what do you do with the other kids? Do you take them from their probably loving mother to put in a nightmare foster situation?

These are NOT easy questions to answer when you are talking about a Nation with millions of people, MANY of whom do not share our faith or our belief in abortion being wrong. Most polls show that 70% of Americans believe it should be legal. That’s a majority folks and this Country is majorty rule wheither we like it or not. Of course the interesting point is that 60% of the people also believe it’s wrong. Thus we have a large percentage (~30%) of the population that believe’s it’s morally wrong yet do not want it made illegal. Probably because of the situations stated above.

My advice - You are in your 60s, if you can find true love, one that is truly self-giving (you have to decide that about the other person) who you can also share your faith with, go for it. If she is open to our Catholic Faith I believe that in time the Holy Spirit can help her understand the errors her abortion beliefs.

You have to decide though, and I would pray about this a great deal, if she is indeed that open and giving person you want to spend the rest of your life with. If you can have a sacramental marraige and are willing to work on things together, God will help you on the disagreements.

Joe
 
I’m not Catholic(yet at least) but I am pro-life. I would advise you to end the relationship. The fact that you two have such different views on abortion shows that you have different world views and different morals. Agreeing on such things is an important part of a relationship. Dating someone whose morals contrast so much with your own could cause much heartbreak in the future. Better to end it now, IMO at least.
 
To jwashu:

What is abortion? It is the murdering of an innocent life. Why do most abortions occur? Because of sexual irresponsibility. If you have two kids and can’t afford another one, why not try abstinence–it’s the best way not to get pregnant. I guess it is a generational thing–the generation that grew up in the sixties started the all sex–all the time movement regardless of the consequences. If it feels good, do it! The billions and billions of human beings who lived on the planet before 1960 obviously were repressed and just ignorant of sexuality. Maybe they just realized there is more to life than sex.
But let’s remember–some women didn’t have any guidance from their Protestant churches so that let’s them off the hook for being pro-choice? I don’t think so. If you told most children what an abortion is, they immediately cringe in horror and declare how wrong it is. Even my nine year old atheist nephew did. But a grown woman can’t figure that out because her Church didn’t tell her so? That is lame and condescending towards woman–we are too stupid to understand the truth.
And I have never understood this argument…if abortion is unsafe, the woman might die. Let’s see–she could die while she is committing the act of murder…so we better make it safe? This is just your physical life we are talking about here. What exactly do you think happens to your soul when you die in the act of having an abortion? Do you think God is going to greet you with open arms and say, “I’m sorry that procedure wasn’t safe.”
 
Wilt, I think her lack of love and care for a helpless unborn baby is just the tip of the iceberg. She’s not lifetime mate material. If she wants to be a liberated woman, let her be, she won’t be happy married to you. Let her go.
 
In certain situations, I would probably be able to convince myself to do it, but I’m not convinced it would be the right thing to do. It’s a hard decision in some situations and especially if the person is notably good and kind.

The biggest problem would be if someone actually believed it were right to kill an actual human baby for the sake of the mother’s comfort or well-being. Someone unwilling to regard the baby as a separate entity would strike me as willingly stupid. Someone wanting to solve it as just a rights issue and at the same time favouring the woman’s rights over the child’s, would strike me as too relativist. All in all, absent some very special circumstances, I’d skip it.

BTW, a girl I thought I’d marry broke up with me partly for this reason. I think it spared me much suffering. It was hard. I exaggerated since she would probably never do it herself and she acknowledged reasons given by abortion women were all selfish, but it was already disturbing that she would support making it legal, believe it was a woman’s righ to decide etc. Every discussion of it was painful.
 
I can´t say whether you ought to carry on your relationship or not. All I can say is that there are sure to be many more sticking points apart from abortion. Is she catholic? If so, she is a dissenting catholic, what I call a “cantine catholic”, who picks the doctrines she finds convenient and ignores the rest. That will certainly be a scource of discord in any marriage. And it´s such a fundamental issue that goes way beyong religion even. Just look at the international campaign for a moratorium on abortion that was started up by an italian atheist! If an atheist can respect the sanctity of human life and your lady friend cannot, you probably don´t have as much in common as you think.

God bless you whatever you decide.
 
What really matters is this: can she help you get to Heaven? Are you both willing to stand before God and commit yourselves to Sacramental marriage as seen in His eyes?

That’s the main question.

As for dissenting views, yes abortion is horrible (and I’m fairly active in our pro life group at school) but it really isn’t a cut and dry issue. A lot of people DON’T believe it’s a baby yet, so they really aren’t “intentionally” killing a human being. And yes, people should be sexually responsible (abstinence till marriage, etc) but we also need to keep in mind the fact that there are many people who aren’t Catholic or even Christian and just don’t know. Or people who’ve made a mistake. We should work in order to prevent abortions but we also need to be there if a woman DOES get pregnant and she’s in crisis, so she doesn’t choose abortion. Most women who have abortions don’t want them. Most people who support the pro-choice movement wouldn’t have an abortion themselves and think of it more as a necessary evil than a right (or, at least most pro choicers that I know).

OK, I’m done with the soap box. OP: I’ll be praying that God’s will is done in your relationship. To everyone: let’s pray for the women and girls who find themselves in these situations.
 
BillP said:
Not to pick on you hasikelee, but this sort of thing just drives me crazy:

First you say…

Then in the very next breath you say:

But she doesn’t believe that really does she? You KNOW she doesn’t because you just told him in the previous paragraph that she didn’t. How can you therefore write the second statement that intentionally mischaracterizes the woman’s position?

I’m sorry to come down on you in particular, but this is really an issue. As long as pro-life people intentionally misrepresent the position of pro-choice people, we will make no progress.

What we need to do is stop lying to ourselves…NOBODY WANTS to kill a **baby. **The vast majority of women who have abortions don’t believe its a baby. Until we deal with that reality we can’t hope to solve this problem.
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You’re right, if the woman in question doesn’t believe the human within the uterus is a baby, then she doesn’t belive abortion is killing a baby.

That’s about as right as you get unfortunately. Because even if she wants to give the human a name other than baby or sweetumcakes or kid, abortion still has three procedures:
  1. The most common procedure, done most commonly at 8-10 weeks, is to cut the human into pieces, usually with a cannula, and suck the pieces out of the uterus. The arms, legs, midsection and head are then carefully reconstructed outside of the woman’s body to make sure the abortionist did not miss any spare body parts.
  2. Saline injection is frequently used for later-term pregnancies. A needle injects the saline into the amniotic fluid so that the human burns to death, internally and externally. Labor is induced and the woman delivers a dead, whole human.
  3. A currently controversial procedure used in very late-term pregnancies is that of inducing labor so that the human is delivered breech-with the legs coming out first. But, delivery is stopped so that most of the human’s head remains in the birth canal. The abortionist uses medical scissors to enter the human’s skull, then sucks out the brains. The dead human is then fully delivered.
Now, you can get all philosphical and jump around with terms. Personally, I use “fetus” or “preborn human” out of my own preference. No matter what you want to call the human, you sure can’t ignore the basic methods of killing. We kill stray animals more humanely than this.

*I should edit to add that other procedures, although not mentioned here, do exist. Particulary the newer forms of abortifacents.
 
I would like to thank everyone who has replied and want you to know that I am here and reading all of it. You have given me a lot think about and I sincerely appreceiate your (name removed by moderator)ut. I especially would like to thank all of you who have offered your prayers for her and for me. Both of us need it…please continue. This is a VERY serious issue for me. There is more to this story but I purposely kept it as brief as possible in my initial post. At some later time I will elaborate as to how all of this came about but for now let me just say that I do think that God brought us together (actually back together) as someone here suggested.I am monitoring this subject and taking all replies quite seriously and trying to consider all angles that are presented. I will continue to do that.
For those of you who have suggested just getting out and ending the relationship all I can say is that I do not believe at this point that is what God’s plan is.

Thanks again to everyone and especially for the prayers…Wilt
 
wilt2448 said:
I would like to thank everyone who has replied and want you to know that I am here and reading all of it. You have given me a lot think about and I sincerely appreceiate your (name removed by moderator)ut. I especially would like to thank all of you who have offered your prayers for her and for me. Both of us need it…please continue. This is a VERY serious issue for me. There is more to this story but I purposely kept it as brief as possible in my initial post. At some later time I will elaborate as to how all of this came about but for now let me just say that I do think that God brought us together (actually back together) as someone here suggested.I am monitoring this subject and taking all replies quite seriously and trying to consider all angles that are presented. I will continue to do that.
For those of you who have suggested just getting out and ending the relationship all I can say is that I do not believe at this point that is what God’s plan is.

Thanks again to everyone and especially for the prayers…Wilt
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In all things, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, for this is the law and the prophets!

What kind of world would we live in if people just went around breaking up relationships, friendships and interactions because they disagreed with eachothers’ views on something? A pretty terrible, divided world, is where we would be.

Keep praying for her, and keep talking, and keep accepting her as she is, and showing the love that Jesus shows for every single one of us.

Praying for you :gopray:
 
wilt2448 said:
I am Catholic and I am pro-life. I have been dating someone who is pro abortion. We are becoming emotionally attached and have discussed marriage. We are both in our mid 60’s so her becoming pregnant is extremely unlikely. Yes, I do know and accept that God can cause anything to happen.

To her this issue is a women’s lib issue. To me it trancends women’s lib and is a basic moral issue.

I’m looking for opinions from real Catholics/Christians. If you were in my position what would you do? Should I consider ending this relationship? Am I really responsible for how another adult feels about this issue even if it should be a potential wife? I welcome your advice and opinions.
Thanks…Wilt
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You need to be equally yoked so I would avoid dating someone who doesn’t share my views on issues of this importance. It may come up to haunt you later on.
 
No, I don’t think you should date someone who is pro-abortion. It is sort of like, I would not date John Wayne Gacy, nor would I date someone who thought it was okay for John Wayne Gacy to do what he did.
 
hasikelee said:
That’s about as right as you get unfortunately. Because even if she wants to give the human a name other than baby or sweetumcakes or kid, abortion still has three procedures:
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I am afraid you’ve missed my point. My point is that as long as the majority of society believes that abortion is something other than murdering babies abortion will never end.

The key is not to change the law (that didn’t work in the past) it is to change hearts, its not to scream at people that they are murderers. The key is to make people understand that the subjects of abortion are nothing less than children, make that case, convince society of that and abortion is history, tomorrow. Look at bike helmets, car seats, and all the outlandish, hyper safety concious things we as a society do to protect children.

What the pro-life movement is doing now isn’t working. The definition of insanity of to keep doing the same thing expecting different results.
 
BillP said:
I am afraid you’ve missed my point. My point is that as long as the majority of society believes that abortion is something other than murdering babies abortion will never end.

The key is not to change the law (that didn’t work in the past) it is to change hearts, its not to scream at people that they are murderers. The key is to make people understand that the subjects of abortion are nothing less than children, make that case, convince society of that and abortion is history, tomorrow. Look at bike helmets, car seats, and all the outlandish, hyper safety concious things we as a society do to protect children.

What the pro-life movement is doing now isn’t working. The definition of insanity of to keep doing the same thing expecting different results.
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I’m sorry? No where did I start screaming at some unknown lady who isn’t even on this forum that she was a murderer.

It needs to be banned asap. I don’t give two squats if someone has a change of heart or not. Likewise, we should have stopped Southern slavery sooner, we should have stopped the Nazis sooner, Darfur is still going on, etc.

I particularly dislike the protestors at abortion clinics. I go there to quietly counsel the women and their “escorts” or enforcers. All the screaming and banging and cursing gets on my nerves. But I am not one to take all this “change of heart, not change of law” fantasy.

The subtlety in that argument says the humans being killed in the uterus are less important than the feelings and emotions of those who promote killing them.

This is obvious, because if mommies and daddies were ripping the arms and legs off their doggies to the tune of more than 4000 dogs a day, you would be up in arms, calling for the law to stop them.
 
I think it a very bad idea mainly for this reason. If your wife is pro-abortion she may well kill your children. Such woman avoid strife in the matter by having an abortion without telling their husband they are pregnant. So you might never even know you had a child.
 
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