Should I go to my friend's confirmation in the Episcopal Church?

[Lilyofthevalley]

WhiteDove, why would’nt you go?You would go to a co-workers wedding,funeral, etc. even if it were in another place of worship, so why is this any different???

 

[fgilbert2]

At the consecration of the 7th Episcopal Bishop of Northern Indiana, which was held at the Sacred Heart Basilica in Notre Dame, both Catholic bishops of the Catholic Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend were present. So go to the confirmation. . .

 

[flick427]

I would not want go to it personally. I have gone to things in the past that are protestant for the sake of a wedding, but now I don’t think I would.
A while ago a person asked on these forums if it was okay to go to a wiccan “hand fasting” ceremony for a friend who was getting married…
The apologist said it was technically okay (as long as there is no participation I assume).
I disagree with that completely.
Wiccanism to us is a occult practice. That would be like going to a satanic gathering and saying “oh, but my friend was getting married there”. We need to draw the line and not accept these sort of things.
Friends go to be with their friends no matter what, they help them go to the bar, help them buy a new car they don’t need…real friends thell those they love that they are wrong…not with cruelty, but with true charity.
While Anglicanism is not “occult” it still is a heresy…and it was started by a man who refused to submit to the authority of the Catholic church because he wanted different wives. There is nothing wrong with telling you friend that you would not feel comfortable with going. I would not expect my athiest friends to go to see me recieve one of the sacraments, but I still love them.
We need to be careful not to have false charity…if your friend truely is a friend, they will understand, but do not belittle them and have a “holier than thou” attitude…that is no good at all…

 

[flick427]

I would not want go to it personally. I have gone to things in the past that are protestant for the sake of a wedding, but now I don’t think I would.
A while ago a person asked on these forums if it was okay to go to a wiccan “hand fasting” ceremony for a friend who was getting married…
The apologist said it was technically okay (as long as there is no participation I assume).
I disagree with that completely.
Wiccanism to us is a occult practice. That would be like going to a satanic gathering and saying “oh, but my friend was getting married there”. We need to draw the line and not accept these sort of things.
Friends go to be with their friends no matter what, they help them go to the bar, help them buy a new car they don’t need…real friends thell those they love that they are wrong…not with cruelty, but with true charity.
While Anglicanism is not “occult” it still is a heresy…and it was started by a man who refused to submit to the authority of the Catholic church because he wanted different wives. There is nothing wrong with telling you friend that you would not feel comfortable with going. I would not expect my athiest friends to go to see me recieve one of the sacraments, but I still love them.
We need to be careful not to have false charity…if your friend truely is a friend, they will understand, but do not belittle them and have a “holier than thou” attitude…that is no good at all…

 

[puzzleannie]

WhiteDove:

So, I’m very surprised at the, thus far, unanimous support for my attending this event. I figured that folks would be more against it. I’m considering strongly going. Do you think I should explain to my friend about the no communion rule before hand? ?

nobody will notice or care if you don’t receive communion. personally I would not make such a long trip for anyone except a family member, but if it sounds good to you, go. As long as she is not and never has been Catholic, she is not bound by the law of the Catholic Church so you are doing nothing wrong by attending. Many things we can do together, and if you are lucky and get a good Episcopal Church you may have a beautiful experience leaving you nostaligic for good traditional liturgy.

 

[Andrew_11]

Go but Do NOT recieve communion there.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

mercygate:

Episcopalians are supposed to have closed communion. They understand why Catholics cannot receive. A knowledgeable Episcopalian will think you are ignorant of your own faith if you receive.

Indeed, if your friend has never been Catholic, then by all means share this important event with her.

mercygate:

Episcopal Communion is “Open to all Baptised and Practising Christians”. (BCP 1928, 1979) The problem is, because of the Break in the Validity of Orders Described by Pope Leo in Apostolicae Curae, the Communion s probably Invalid.

In spite of efforts by many Anglicans to repair the Breach by means of a repaired Ordinal, “The Dutch Touch” and ammended Intent, Anglican Orders have been, by and Large, re-severved as Bishops ordained women Priests (PECUSA in America starting in 1976, the rest of the Anglican Communion by 1991) and women Bishops (ECUSA in the late 1980’s, the rest of the Communion still considering).

The Canons of the Cathedral are The Rev. Canon Mart K. Craft and The Rev. Canon Kristi Philip. The Bishop appears to be The Rt. Rev James Waggoner, Jr.

stjohns-cathedral.org/worship/Sermons.htm

ECUSA in Washington also has a “Bishopess” who, I hear, is an absolute terror. There’s one traditionalist (read "orthodox’) ECUSA Parish which annually says, “From the dread Bishopess (Name)… Good Lord deliver us!” It’s presently under the oversight of a Uganda Archbishop over the objections of the Bishopess who wants to close the congregation’s doors and replace it with a more compliant (heterodox) parish.

I hope you get Bishop Wagonner and not her.

Do NOT receive Communion under any circumstances - simply explaining that you’ve received already should be sufficient as a courtesy.

Go ahead an genuflect and kneel. There are other reasons to do these besides Our Lord being present at the alter.

Go ahead and participate, esp. if the prayers and songs are familiar. Episcopalians tend to say all the right words. the problem is they generally don’t mean them. That’s what “Broad Church” and “Via Media” both end up meaning, sadly.

I would still go over this with your parish priest just to make sure he approves of all of the details, and to see if he wishes to give you any other instructions, since you are representing that parish.

And, do bring something nice for your friend, maybe one of those really nice leatherbound RSV-CE’s from Ignatius Press (the ones they list for $79.99). or, Maybe a nice hardcover set of C.S.Lewis (So she can see how far the Anglican Communion and ECUSA have fallen.

Blessed are they who act to save the lives of God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

mercygate:

Episcopalians are supposed to have closed communion. They understand why Catholics cannot receive. A knowledgeable Episcopalian will think you are ignorant of your own faith if you receive.

Indeed, if your friend has never been Catholic, then by all means share this important event with her.

mercygate:

Episcopal Communion is “Open to all Baptised and Practising Christians”. (BCP 1928, 1979) The problem is, because of the Break in the Validity of Orders Described by Pope Leo in Apostolicae Curae, the Communion s probably Invalid.

In spite of efforts by many Anglicans to repair the Breach by means of a repaired Ordinal, “The Dutch Touch” and ammended Intent, Anglican Orders have been, by and Large, re-severved as Bishops ordained women Priests (PECUSA in America starting in 1976, the rest of the Anglican Communion by 1991) and women Bishops (ECUSA in the late 1980’s, the rest of the Communion still considering).

The Canons of the Cathedral are The Rev. Canon Mart K. Craft and The Rev. Canon Kristi Philip. The Bishop appears to be The Rt. Rev James Waggoner, Jr.

stjohns-cathedral.org/worship/Sermons.htm

ECUSA in Washington also has a “Bishopess” who, I hear, is an absolute terror. There’s one traditionalist (read "orthodox’) ECUSA Parish which annually says, “From the dread Bishopess (Name)… Good Lord deliver us!” It’s presently under the oversight of a Uganda Archbishop over the objections of the Bishopess who wants to close the congregation’s doors and replace it with a more compliant (heterodox) parish.

I hope you get Bishop Wagonner and not her.

Do NOT receive Communion under any circumstances - simply explaining that you’ve received already should be sufficient as a courtesy.

Go ahead an genuflect and kneel. There are other reasons to do these besides Our Lord being present at the alter.

Go ahead and participate, esp. if the prayers and songs are familiar. Episcopalians tend to say all the right words. the problem is they generally don’t mean them. That’s what “Broad Church” and “Via Media” both end up meaning, sadly.

I would still go over this with your parish priest just to make sure he approves of all of the details, and to see if he wishes to give you any other instructions, since you are representing that parish.

And, do bring something nice for your friend, maybe one of those really nice leatherbound RSV-CE’s from Ignatius Press (the ones they list for $79.99). or, Maybe a nice hardcover set of C.S.Lewis (So she can see how far the Anglican Communion and ECUSA have fallen).

Blessed are they who act to save the lives of God’s Little Ones. Michael

 

[Celia]

I would go. I went to a friend’s Baptist baptism ceremony a few months ago. I’m starting to feel a little bad now though, because after reading this thread, I didn’t realize that I shouldn’t put money in the collection. Also, she was baptized Greek orthodox as a baby but converted to baptism. I wonder if that was o.k.

It was interesting anyway.

 

[GKC]

“Episcopal Communion is “Open to all Baptised and Practising Christians”. (BCP 1928, 1979)”

Really? C. B. Moss would be so disappointed.

I say nothing of the 1979 book, but what happpened, in that case, to the final rubric on p. 299 of the 1928 book? You know, “…confirmed, or ready and desirous to be confirmed”.

GKC

traditional Anglican, Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

WhiteDove:

If you click on this link Can a priest give permission to have communion at an Episcopal church one time??? , you’ll see that Fr Serpa told me that it is a big no no to even think about having communion in an Episcopal church, and that any priest worth his salt would not OK it. So, I guess that idea is out, and I won’t approach my parish priest.

So, is it wrong to attend this event? My friend is a wonderful gal who has found a lot of solace in the Episcopal church, and for whatever reason, doesn’t seek out the Catholic church. I’ve never discussed the matter, as she is a work friend with whom I only occasionally socialize with out of work.

So, should I consider going?

According to a document of the Pontifical Commission for Christian Unity published in 1993, that kind of thing seems to be just fine :

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/general-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html ##

 

[marke]

I reviewed the rubrics on page 299 of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer (which I found in the Abbey’s library) and it has to do with an individual being admitted to Holy Communion after one is confirmed; not closed communion per say. It is my understanding that in many places it was common practice in the Catholic Church to be confirmed before one received Eucharist.

An side note that I find interesting is that the Episcopal / Anglican Church has always been labeled as a “Bridge Church” between the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant Churches and it appears that it is also a “Bridge” between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church as well. For example the Catholic Parishes that are Anglican Use Parishes use a liturgical book called Divine Liturgy, which is primarily the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and the Orthodox Church which uses “western Rite” liturgies use a version of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer as well.

The Benedictian Order, which Iam a member of, has as far as I know always had a close relationship with are brother and sister Benedictians who are Anglican. In fact the Anglican Benedictians are members of the worldwide Benedictian fellowship. I am aware of several parts of this country where Catholic and Anglican Benedictians gather together to worship not only for the Daily Prayer Offices but for Eucharist as well.

As to the orginal question, should you attend your friend’s confirmation in the Episcopal Church…I would say by all means go and celebrate their growth in the Church and in Christ.

Peace,

Mark

 

[GKC]

Greetings, marke,

No, that rubric establishes and reflects the historic Anglican approach, going back to the 1552 PCB, that Communion is reserved for baptised and confirmed Church members only. The reference to C. B. Moss was to his comment (in his THE CHRISTIAN FAITH, I think) that this discipline was one of the few such things that was a universal practice of Anglicanism, whatever its stripe. Moss would not be able to say this today, I know, but the 1928 Prayer Book does.

The reference limits admission to Communion to those confirmed, or desirous of being confirmed, *tout court *, the latter category being related to the problems face by CoE churches in the New World colonies, prior to the revolution. Since no one could communicate until confirmed, and there were no colonial bishops resident (the colonies were under the care of the Bishop of London), this would mean that no one who had been catechised, but not confirmed, and was otherwise ready to receive, could do so until a bishop might be in the western hemisphere. This loophole allowed for such as these to receive, before being confirmed. It was not an invitation for open communion.

That being said, my rector has said his policy is that if an unknown individual presents himself at the rail, and seems to know the drill, he will communicate him. No inquisitions there.

The AU Book of Divine Worship is more closely based on the 1979 Episcopal Prayer Book, Rite I, than on the 1928 Book.

As to your observation that Anglican and RC Benedictines share a Eucharistic Service, on occasions, I plead total ignorance, tinged with surprise.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

marke:

I reviewed the rubrics on page 299 of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer (which I found in the Abbey’s library) and it has to do with an individual being admitted to Holy Communion after one is confirmed; not closed communion per say. It is my understanding that in many places it was common practice in the Catholic Church to be confirmed before one received Eucharist.

An side note that I find interesting is that the Episcopal / Anglican Church has always been labeled as a “Bridge Church” between the Roman Catholic Church and Protestant Churches and it appears that it is also a “Bridge” between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church as well. For example the Catholic Parishes that are Anglican Use Parishes use a liturgical book called Divine Liturgy, which is primarily the 1928 Book of Common Prayer and the Orthodox Church which uses “western Rite” liturgies use a version of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer as well.

The Benedictian Order, which Iam a member of, has as far as I know always had a close relationship with are brother and sister Benedictians who are Anglican. In fact the Anglican Benedictians are members of the worldwide Benedictian fellowship. I am aware of several parts of this country where Catholic and Anglican Benedictians gather together to worship not only for the Daily Prayer Offices but for Eucharist as well.

As to the orginal question, should you attend your friend’s confirmation in the Episcopal Church…I would say by all means go and celebrate their growth in the Church and in Christ.

Peace,

Mark

 

[anJayRN]

Yes you should go because you never know, her granddaughter might get caught in a whirlpool several months later, and then her son might jump in to save her, and they might all drown. Wouldn’t that be terrible? You need to be prepared for the worst, you know.