Should IVF babies exist?

[namax91]

I understand why the Church is against IVF, but wouldn’t that mean that people born that way shouldn’t exist? Or should we just think of it as maybe God would’ve given the parents the particular baby anyway if they had only waited? Does that make sense?

 

[Rau]

I understand why the Church is against IVF, but wouldn’t that mean that people born that way shouldn’t exist? Or should we just think of it as maybe God would’ve given the parents the particular baby anyway if they had only waited? Does that make sense?

No, I don’t understand events in that way. We live in a world where we have free will and the world operates according to known rules. Therefore, IVF babies will exist should we choose.

 

[1ke]

You are correct that if people followed God’s law, some specific individuals would not have been born, such as those created in labs, those conceived in relationships outside marriage, those conceived by victims of rape and others.

On the flip side, if people followed God’s law, many people who are not alive today or were never conceived would be: those whose parents chose contraceptive sex and sterilization, victims of abortion, and others.

In all these exercises of our free will, God works to bring about good from the evil we do.

 

[kozlosap]

Of course!!! If we call ourselves prolife then we are prolife, no matter how conception occurred.

 

[epan]

I understand why the Church is against IVF, but wouldn’t that mean that people born that way shouldn’t exist? Or should we just think of it as maybe God would’ve given the parents the particular baby anyway if they had only waited? Does that make sense?

It is the act of the parents, and not of the child. Why would anyone hold it against the child for any reason?

In the past, there has been much prejudice against children born outside of wedlock in some societies, while they have been more accepted in other societies. But, I think that any modern person would be inclined not to hold the circumstances of birth against the child. I don’t see how IVF is much different.

 

[TarkanAttila]

The IVF should not have happened. But, demonstrating His power to bring good from evil, God made human life come from it.

That a person, full of free will and love and life, can come from IVF is a demonstration God cannot be incapacitated by our attempts to circumvent Him.

 

[Tomoko]

I understand why the Church is against IVF, but wouldn’t that mean that people born that way shouldn’t exist? Or should we just think of it as maybe God would’ve given the parents the particular baby anyway if they had only waited? Does that make sense?

What do you mean they shouldn’t exist? They do exist, as do children who have been conceived through violence, accident, loveless unions and all sorts of other ways that don’t fit the “ideal”. They are beloved children of God, just like everyone else; the circumstances of conception have nothing to do with the child. Each life is precious. They should exist, in that sense, because they do exist.

Pax et bonum
Mokocchi

 

[edwest2]

IVF shouldn’t exist. I’m not referring to the babies. Any human act that violates God’s plan for married couples is wrong. In the past, people unable to conceive adopted. IVF is also not without risk of death, since “extra” IVF babies are products and can be frozen or discarded or destroyed for research purposes. Among the other tragedies of human life, the IVF procedure should not exist. Those born from such a procedure are all children of God.

Ed

 

[KCT]

quotehttp://contentcache-a.akamaihd.net/items/it/img/arrow-10x10.png=namax91;12731996]
I understand why the Church is against IVF, but wouldn’t that mean that people born that way shouldn’t exist? Or should we just think of it as maybe God would’ve given the parents the particular baby anyway if they had only waited? Does that make sense?

Not ‘shouldn’t exist’. Perhaps ‘wouldn’t exist’ if those involved had made other choices.

There are not souls floating around somewhere waiting for parents. When a sperm and egg meet, God promises to infuse a soul. He may prefer it happen one way, but if it happens another, He still infuses a soul.

 

[Corki]

I understand why the Church is against IVF, but wouldn’t that mean that people born that way shouldn’t exist? Or should we just think of it as maybe God would’ve given the parents the particular baby anyway if they had only waited? Does that make sense?

I see it as the same as children conceived in rape. The fact that a sin was committed that resulted in the conception does not change the fact that the child is a gift from God fully deserving of dignity and respect.

In the case of IVF, God gave the couple a child in spite of their immoral actions. They should be grateful BOTH for the gift of a baby and for God’s mercy.

 

[Listener]

How do we know that certain people wouldn’t exist if their parents had made different choices? For all we know, God could create these people anyway but with different parents. They could have the same souls but different bodies.

I think that some things are simply beyond our understanding.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

IVF babies should not exist in the sense that it should never happen. However it does happen and those people are a gift.

 

[oldcelt]

I see it as the same as children conceived in rape. The fact that a sin was committed that resulted in the conception does not change the fact that the child is a gift from God fully deserving of dignity and respect.

**In the case of IVF, God gave the couple a child in spite of their immoral actions. ** They should be grateful BOTH for the gift of a baby and for God’s mercy.

So God doesn’t create us individually? Or is he complicit in mortal sin? Seems that we have reached a contradiction. It has to be one or the other…logically.

John

 

[1ke]

So God doesn’t create us individually? Or is he complicit in mortal sin? Seems that we have reached a contradiction. It has to be one or the other…logically.

John

There is no contradiction.

God specially creates each soul. Their parents chose a gravely wrong method of conceiving them. Once conceived, they receive a soul like every other human.

 

[Corki]

So God doesn’t create us individually? Or is he complicit in mortal sin? Seems that we have reached a contradiction. It has to be one or the other…logically.

John

That doesn’t make any sense. God create man with a certain biology. When the biological functions result in the combining of DNA, God is creating an individual human. God is not a puppet master. He does not step in to a sinful situation, whether it be rape or IVF, and prevent biology from proceeding.

 

[Bahman]

I understand why the Church is against IVF, but wouldn’t that mean that people born that way shouldn’t exist? Or should we just think of it as maybe God would’ve given the parents the particular baby anyway if they had only waited? Does that make sense?

What you are talking about?

 

[oldcelt]

That doesn’t make any sense. God create man with a certain biology. When the biological functions result in the combining of DNA, God is creating an individual human. God is not a puppet master. He does not step in to a sinful situation, whether it be rape or IVF, and prevent biology from proceeding.

But he preordained it according to Catholic theology…kind of puppet like.

We may now briefly summarize the whole Catholic doctrine, which is in harmony with our reason as well as our moral sentiments. According to the doctrinal decisions of general and particular synods, God infallibly foresees and immutably preordains from eternity all future events

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

 

[Rau]

But he preordained it according to Catholic theology…kind of puppet like.

The world has physical rules. We are in part a product of those rules, but imbued with free will.

 

[davidv]

But he preordained it according to Catholic theology…kind of puppet like.

newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm

599 Jesus’ violent death was not the result of chance in an unfortunate coincidence of circumstances, but is part of the mystery of God’s plan, as St. Peter explains to the Jews of Jerusalem in his first sermon on Pentecost: "This Jesus [was]
delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God."393 This Biblical language does not mean that those who handed him over were merely passive players in a scenario written in advance by God.394
600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace: "In this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place."395 For the sake of accomplishing his plan of salvation, God permitted the acts that flowed from their blindness.396

 

[oldcelt]

davidv:
Preordained and free will do not co-exist logically. That is why they fall back on the mystery answer.