Should Marriage be saved if there are grounds for annulment?

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faithhopelove

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Hi all,

I have been lurking for several weeks now, but never posted. I would like to get some advice from fellow Catholics on the situation in my marriage. I have been talking with a secular counselor about this and have talked once with a priest as well, but I am looking for a pro-marriage, Catholic view to go along with what else I have heard. I will say from the outset that I realize that ultimately I have to make some tough decisions and I would never make those decisions solely based on what one person (or a group of people) say on a message board such as this, but I would like to hear what others think and what others would do in my situation.

Without going into gory details, my husband says that he wants a divorce, and we have realized that we probably have grounds for an annulment being that my husband went into this marriage with conditions (albeit unknowingly at the time), and now that those conditions have not been met (and can never be met), he claims he can never love me the way he once did, and he will never view this marriage as sacramental or unique in anyway. He also does not want to have children (although he is OK with no BC and will raise children in accordance with what the church teaches if we should get pregnant). We are both extremely miserable in this marriage, but we both still love each other very much (even if he does not love me the way he once did). He is unwilling to “work on the marriage” to make it better, because as he puts it “he doesn’t care anymore”. We would both rather be dead that go through what we are enduring, and have both prayed that God take our lives now. Although I am miserable, I don’t want to end our marriage, I still love him very much, and I still hold out hope that things could get better, although that hope fades more and more every day.

I believe very strongly in my marriage vows, and I believe that even though I am miserable, it is my duty to endure in Christ and continue to love my husband the best I can. When I asked my husband why he hadn’t just left if he wanted a divorce, he said that he doesn’t have the energy it takes to do everything necessary to move out, get a divorce with me fighting him every step of the way (which is what I have done thus far). He said that if I were to agree not to fight him, he would proceed. He also said that I am being selfish in not agreeing to give him a divorce because he will never be happy in this marriage and I am holding on for my own selfish wants.

My question to you is given the information I have presented, am I being selfish in holding on? The other question is, if I really believe that we have valid grounds for an annulment and thus the marriage sacrament probably never really took place (and the priest who I talked to also agreed that we probably have grounds for an annulment), should I even be trying to save our “marriage” if it might not be valid? I have asked him if he would be willing to recommit and take our vows again to ensure that our marriage is sacramental, and he has said no.
I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut
 
Marriage is a serios vocation. It should not be taking lightly, I do not think your being selfish to try to make it work. But there is a time when you just need to move on, when that time is, only you and God knows.
Good luck and I will have you and your husband in my offerings.
 
I am sorry that you are in this tough situation, it is very sad.

I cannot offer any advice as I have no idea what I would do myself if I were in your situation.

I am, however, thankful that you two do not have any children who would be hurt by this situation.

Listen to what God is trying to tell you… the answer is there.

I hope you can come to a decision that is best for you and your marriage and that offers you some peace.

Take care of yourself,

Malia
 
Please check out retrovaille. It was our last hope when our marriage was barely hanging on. That was 7 years ago and we have blessed with a total healing in our marriage. It wasn’t just retrouvaille but it was the jump start to a long healing process. I too was willing to live miserably because I took my marriage vows seriously. My husband was ready to leave, but agreed to try this as our last chance. If you still love each other don’t give up hope yet. My life 7 years ago was a nightmare of constant heart ache and a river of tears, I could have never imagined the furture turning out a beautiful as it has. Please give retrouvaille a shot.

retrouvaille.org/
 
Sounds to me like your husband is manipulating you: “I’m too tired to leave and fight for a divorce, but if you stop fighting me, I’ll leave.” Then later he’ll say, “She quit fighting for me. She didn’t want me anymore, so of course I had to leave.”

The Retrouvaille is a good thing. It saved my brother’s marriage of 15+ years when he was ready to walk (already had an apartment rented). A year later, they seem to be doing much better and were much stronger together.

I know a couple with a very annulable marriage who are still together more than 15 years. The Church considers all marriages valid until proven otherwise.

Spend time before the Blessed Sacrament (daily, if you can, even if only for 5 minutes at a time) and let Jesus be with you.
 
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nancy3159:
Sounds to me like your husband is manipulating you: “I’m too tired to leave and fight for a divorce, but if you stop fighting me, I’ll leave.” Then later he’ll say, “She quit fighting for me. She didn’t want me anymore, so of course I had to leave.”
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That’s a good point. It’s going to be all her fault that he left.

Dear faithhopelove,

You say you still “love each other” but that he’s unwilling to work to improve the marriage. He’s also unwilling to work to leave it. Is he suffering from any sort of depression? He sounds very indecisive, if he will live in hell rather than lift a finger to move out or to fix the marriage. Are either of you suicidal over this? Anyway he sounds pretty wishy-washy. I recognize the symptoms because I am wishy-washy myself about many things. Given that, I advise you don’t let him go until you are both absolutely sure it’s what you want. He can call it “selfish” or not. Did you marry him under intentionally conveyed false pretenses?

From my own experience, there have been a couple times my wife and I were tempted to contemplate splitting up over hardships, but we didn’t stay that way very long because we agreed in advance of our wedding that we actually were going to take our wedding vows seriously, and that breaking up was not an option.

Since he isn’t willing to work at moving out or staying “married” but you are still “in love,” could you live as roommates for a while, or due to the nature of his problems would he also want to date other women?

Also you might try retrouvaille as the others have mentioned. I have not been to it but heard good things about it. To those who know about retrouvaille, can it be used for one of a couple if the other one refuses to go? (From what this guy sounds like he might go if you insist – especially if you say refuse to even consider divorce until he gives this an honest try. That puts the ball back in his court.)

Alan
 
Very tough issue that should be discussed with a good priest who is familiar with such marriage difficulties.

The following is mostly my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt.

The main impediment to your marriage is not a perceived lack of love, but a husband who refuses to sanctify the marriage with children. The purpose of marriage is family, not cohabitation. This is so against God’s will as to make the marriage invalid right now.

Theologically, the sacrament can attach at a later date, so that a marriage invalid today can be sanctified later if the couple conform their relationship to God’s will. He could change his mind. But many people today place idolatry - in this case, the love of *self * - ahead of God, and ahead of acceptance of God’s will.

Pursue Retrouvaille, as has been suggested. But if your husband is still unwilling to bring children into your marriage after being properly instructed on this issue, then there is a great chance your marriage will never be sanctified no matter how much you love each other.

*(N.B.: a childless marriage is not necessarily unsanctified - it is only when the couple refuses to accept children that the marriage remains unsanctified and the sacrament does not attach. Those who are unable to have children but are willing to accept children if that is God’s will are living a sacramental marriage). *
 
Retrouvaille requires both the husband and the wife, and they need to verbally talk to both the husband and the wife before confirming the weekend because they want to make sure both commit to it.
I can’t recommend this program enough.
 
Fight for the marriage!!

It isn’t for u to determine whether or not there are grounds for annulment and also…heed the words of the Holy FAther earlier this year to the Tribunal in Rome…

‘All marriage is to be seen and treated as valid and sacramental until otherwise determined, even if it may seem now as though there may be grounds for it.’

Thats my paraphrase but on target. (it was back in January…lol)
 
Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and support!

To answer a few of your questions: Yes, we both agree that he is depressed, and although he says he not opposed to seeking out medical therapy, he is more of a believer in it when it is chronic, unprovoked depression, rather than what we are going through which is “situational” as he puts it (which I think is ridiculous, but I can’t force him to seek treatment). I haven’t pushed for him to seek out treatment lately though, so I may revisit the issue.

As for whether he is manipulating me, I do think that he is manipulating me to a certain degree. He has admitted that he tries to watch out to not become that way since he has tendencies to be manipulative sometimes (gift from his mother :rolleyes: ). So its hard to tell whether its intentional or not, but I am somewhat leery of confronting him on it, because I am always worried about doing something that could tip him over the edge such that he decides to just leave… I do think its useful for me to realize when he is doing that though.

I am going to push to go to Retrovaille – based on what I’ve heard and read, it really does seem like our best hope. What I’m debating now is if he doesn’t initially agree to go, whether to make a deal with him, something to the effect of if you go through the program with me and give it your full effort and you still want a divorce x months later, then I won’t fight you on it. The thought of him coming back later and saying that he gave it his full effort and still wants a divorce scares me, 😦 but at the same time, we can’t really go on like this, something has to change, because this isn’t a healthy situation for either of us.

Any thoughts?
 
You say that you both still love each other, but your post conveys that you are miserable with this person you love. What do you love about your husband? Part of love is commitment, and it doesn’t sound like your husband is committed to the marriage if he is unwilling to work on it.

A couple things:
  1. Do not talk to a secular counselor about this. From my own experience, I can actually tell you that secular counselors can do more harm than good to your marriage. Find a Christian counselor who understands the Church’s laws and believes in them.
  2. While I don’t think that you are being selfish fighting for the marriage, I do think that trying to MAKE your husband stay against his will contributes to his defensiveness, which will only make your problem worse. If he wants to go, he should have the freedom to leave. If he stays because it’s too hard to leave, that’s not love, that’s compliance.
  3. One idea is before you agree to a divorce, ask for a compromise: you both go to the Retrouvaille retreat, and then if things don’t improve, you’ll grant him a no-fault divorce.
What specific problems are you having? Some things are easier to fix than others. For example, deep character flaws are not easy to fix – a person really has to be intrinsically motivated to make changes. Other things, like poor communication skills, can be learned relatively easily. A good counselor can help you with this.

God bless you.
 
I think your on the the right track. When my husband agreed to go to retrouvaille he had already told me he wasn’t in love with me anymore but because we had a child he would give his best effort for the sake of our daughter. At that point it didn’t matter to me what his reason was.

After Retrouvaille my husband eventually did seek teatment for depression. He was a on meds for about 4 years (which they had to change from time to time because often anti-deppresants lose their effectiveness with long term use.)Last year he took himself off of them on his own and his been doing very well.

I will keep you both in my prayers. It is scary but if your husband truly does give his full effort and still wants a divorce than you can say you tried your best. God will be with you whatever the outcome is.

As a side note: I also began praying the rosary fervantly for our marriage during our crisis.
 
Try focusing on the depression and kindly but firmly and lovingly guide him to get treatment for the depression. Depression is a significant issue which clouds his judgment and his views of everything, including you and your marriage. Show him that you love him and are standing by him by encouraging him to get treatment. The message you will send him by your love and concern will be a very positive one. Once he is being treated for the depression, you will both be better able to focus on your marriage. God bless you both.
 
My advice- Not doing what may be considered Right or Wrong, but do what makes you Feel Good. You’ve tried and did your part and it’s not like you’re giving up on him---- Just move the spot light on something that makes you feel good. If he says that your being selfish then show him what that means… Focus on Yourself, do the things women do that makes us blush- - - - wether admitted or not WE ALL Love Attention!!! Get a make over, go out, take on a hobby, class, or activity where you can be meeting new people… He maybe will soon realize what he had, how good, and what he has to do to save the marriage in order to win the spot light that he once stood under for so long. I always thought when you attend mass and when we all join hands - one hand faces up the other down - meaning Give and Receive… You’ve given… And in marriage it TAKES two to become one so let him feel that. Feeling and being Miserable or Sorry what good is that can anything actually be benefited from feeling that way??? That’s Selfish… Do Good - Be Good = Feel Good
 
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michelleleebb:
My advice- Not doing what may be considered Right or Wrong, but do what makes you Feel Good. You’ve tried and did your part and it’s not like you’re giving up on him---- Just move the spot light on something that makes you feel good.

He maybe will soon realize what he had, how good, and what he has to do to save the marriage in order to win the spot light that he once stood under for so long. … Do Good - Be Good = Feel Good
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I feel somewhat uneasy about this advice. “My advice- Not doing what may be considered Right or Wrong, but do what makes you Feel Good.” Ofcourse we should always take care ourselves physically, emotionally and spiritually. (I went to daily Mass during our crisis and had the support of good friends)

The thing is if your husband is truly suffering from depression he needs help. Most people get the impression that those who suffer deppression can just snap out of it. More often than not this will not be the case. I think there are more deep seated issues here than your husband taking you for granted which michelleleebb seems to be implying. I hope you are able to make it to Retrouvaille, I’ll be praying for you.
 
I think you should both try to keep the marrige together, but if It doesnt work than I would not want to stay in a marriage of missary. why suffer there could be another man out there for u to love.

good luck
 
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