Should music refering to God as she be allowed during mass?

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ccwen

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I recently experienced this at my local Newman Center. They changed particular songs for the mass by asking everyone to sing the parts where they say “he” as “she” and “father” as “mother”. Now it was finally stopped by our director here but not because it was wrong to speak of God as she. But rather because they were changing copyrighted songs. Now I know God is neither he nor she but traditionally we always speak of God as “he” and “father”

Now they are trying to find music that refers to God in the “she” so they can sing these types of songs. I have argued that it is incredibly distracting and detrimental to the community to sing about God in the she during mass. But some argue using the Book of WIsdom which I know refers to Wisdom as she. Can anyone find me or know of Catholic teachings in this area. In all my 21 years as a Catholic, I had never heard of something like this till I got to this Newman Center.
 
Everything said, sung or done at Mass must with perfect clarity express the belief of the Catholic Chruch without any exception.
 
NO!

To refer to God or any of the members of the Trinity themselves as she is blasphemy.
 
Agree. Absolutely NOT. :tsktsk:

It is not Our Mother, it is Our Father. This is a further example of the New Age Gnosticism that is infiltrating the Church. For some reason, Newman Centers are notorious for that.

If I were you, I would check to see if there is another Catholic Church near campus. If not, report them to the Bishop (you may want to do that anyways).

I do not know if there is a central organization for Newman Centers but, if threre is, I would report this to them too.

PF
 
to be honest, it is slightly off-putting for them to do so, and i would probably not enjoy them doing so, but i suppose it is in their rights to do so.

it has gotten to the stage here in Ireland that there is a list of about a hundred hymns that can be sung in the church and nothing else is allowed, which is fair stupid as i know loadsa people who wanted to walk down the isle to a respectful song they liked but were not allowed!!!
 
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theologyboy:
to be honest, it is slightly off-putting for them to do so, and i would probably not enjoy them doing so, but i suppose it is in their rights to do so.
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Actually, it is not. What they are doing is going against the teachings of the Church. Plain and simple, that is not allowed.
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theologyboy:
it has gotten to the stage here in Ireland that there is a list of about a hundred hymns that can be sung in the church and nothing else is allowed, which is fair stupid as i know loadsa people who wanted to walk down the isle to a respectful song they liked but were not allowed!!!
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I actually agree with this. However, there should be a process in place for hymns to be reviewed and added if appropriate.

PF
 
If people don’t agree with the church they should just leave it instead of trying to change it to fit their will. That way they will only have to answer to God for their own mistakes instead of having to explain to him why they lead others into corrupt beliefs.
 
Br. Rich SFO:
Everything said, sung or done at Mass must with perfect clarity express the belief of the Catholic Chruch without any exception.
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Agreed here and I do believe strongly that when people do this they are engaging in a form of vanity and pride.

It is also a selfish attempt, imho, to make the Mass entertaining for those who engage in this kind of behavior.

Take that from a female! And I fought for women’s rights in my workplace, but I draw the line on such silly issues.

What a pity that the attention is given more to making a point, than to simply worship the Lord denying onesself such satisfaction.
 
I once bought into the feminist thinking, regarding inclusive language. As I have studied more and more, I have come to realize the folly of that thinking. Jesus was a man. Calling Jesus a she is wrong (He is God, after all. Rather than try to diffuse the differences between men and women, why shouldn’t we celebrate them? Mary is an example of perfect womanhood. I would rather try to emulate her than to focus my energy on something that doesn’t make any sense to me.
 
Thanks for all the comments but does anyone have specific places in canon law or the catechism or scripture or church fathers which would help to explain this more fully?
 
CCC 198:

**198 **Our profession of faith begins with God, for God is the First and the Last,1 the beginning and the end of everything. The Credo begins with God the Father, for the Father is the first divine person of the Most Holy Trinity; our Creed begins with the creation of heaven and earth, for creation is the beginning and the foundation of all God’s works.

From the Vatican Website: vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm
 
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Jayson:
If people don’t agree with the church they should just leave it instead of trying to change it to fit their will. That way they will only have to answer to God for their own mistakes instead of having to explain to him why they lead others into corrupt beliefs.
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Oh come on! You know that religion is just an expression of innermost selves! If some people have to think of God as “she” in order to derive more personal benefit then good for them! Besides we’re alienating women! What about their need to have someone like themselves as their personal creatrix?

😃

Seriously: I trust God to know why he is our Father, I trust the Son to introduce us properly, and I trust the Holy Spirit to guide the Church consistently over the centuries. God does some mother-like things. No problem. But God has ordained things to be as they are, and recall, *Domine, non est exaltatum cor meum, neque elati sunt oculi mei, neque ambulavi in magnis, neque in mirabilibus super me *(Psalm 130/1).
 
Br. Rich SFO:
Everything said, sung or done at Mass must with perfect clarity express the belief of the Catholic Chruch without any exception.
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Claritas est caritas! (An old Roman proverb I just invented.)
 
Never! Not on my watch. Whenever the choice of a traditional version of a song and a gender-inclusive (neutered) version of a song presents itself, I will choose the traditional.
 
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theologyboy:
to be honest, it is slightly off-putting for them to do so, and i would probably not enjoy them doing so, but i suppose it is in their rights to do so.

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no, it is in not within “their” rights to sing songs during Mass that directly contradict Divine Revelation and Catholic doctrine. The Liturgy is the public prayer and worship of the Church, and all of it including the music is prayer, moreover prayer that expresses the belief of the Church. No element of that liturgy can be allowed to change, challenge or disparage that belief, including songs, homily, actions, ministerial roles, gestures, postures, readings etc.
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You should send a copy of your post to the bishop of the diocese where this Newman Center is located in. In the mean time avoid the place as you would any other sinful place. Obviously they have strayed for from Church teaching.
The sad part is that they think they are a bunch of cutsies.
They use to be refered to as sophomoric.
 
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FrmrTrad:
Oh come on! You know that religion is just an expression of innermost selves! If some people have to think of God as “she” in order to derive more personal benefit then good for them!
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:rolleyes: No wonder things are all mixed up when people can’t relate “Father” with the male gender.
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FrmrTrad:
Besides we’re alienating women! What about their need to have someone like themselves as their personal creatrix?
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Uh-hmmmm - I’m a woman and I do not feel alienated by the Catholic Church. And, I just so happened to have stumbled upon a parish that has no altar girls or female lectors.

The funny part is that I have fought extensively for women’s rights in the work place - for equal employment and work in order to advance.

But, I fully accept my position with the Catholic Church and embrace my role with dignity and class.

Take that from a women’s liber who happens to be an orthodox Catholic!

:rotfl:
 
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