Should Orthodox be re-confirmed?

[JohnVIII]

To the best of my knowledge the Russian Orthodox have full apostolic succession. Why did the Greek put you through the ritual again?

My spiritual father told me that because of certain serious sins that I had committed that I needed to be re-chrismated. In obedience to him I sought after a piest in the Russian Orthodox Church that would perform it for me, as my spiritual father was 2000 miles away. Every priest and the Russian Orthodox Church I asked was very reluctant to do this, so I went to my spiritual father as soon as I was able to travel to him. But by the time I was able to do so my spiritual father left the Russian Orthodox Church and joined the Greek Old Calendar Church, so when he re-chrismated me I became de facto a member of the Greek Old Calendar Church. It was wrong for me to do this, so later I returned to the Russian Orthodox Church.

Is their apostolic succession questionable?

The bishops in the Greek Old Calendar Church have received their ordinations by bishops who were ordered not to do this, after having performed their ordinations the ordaining bishops were disciplined by the Synod.

That’s not correct. There is no Orthodox Church that is in full communion with Rome, unless they are referring to communion in sacraments. In which case there are Orthodox Churches that have the fullness of the priesthood. Therefore they have valid sacraments.

I know there is no Orthodox Church that is in full communion with Rome. But this is the words that these Roman Catholic priests used. What I learned that what they meant were the “Eastern Catholics”. There are plenty of Eastern Catholics right here in this forum. It is true that they are not Orthodox in communion with Rome, but they come very close to being that.

Thank you much for your concern.

• a d r i a n

 

[JReducation]

My spiritual father told me that because of certain serious sins that I had committed that I needed to be re-chrismated. In obedience to him I sought after a piest in the Russian Orthodox Church that would perform it for me, as my spiritual father was 2000 miles away. Every priest and the Russian Orthodox Church I asked was very reluctant to do this, so I went to my spiritual father as soon as I was able to travel to him. But by the time I was able to do so my spiritual father left the Russian Orthodox Church and joined the Greek Old Calendar Church, so when he re-chrismated me I became de facto a member of the Greek Old Calendar Church. It was wrong for me to do this, so later I returned to the Russian Orthodox Church.

It was wrong of the priest.

The bishops in the Greek Old Calendar Church have received their ordinations by bishops who were ordered not to do this, after having performed their ordinations the ordaining bishops were disciplined by the Synod.

Oh! An eastern version of the SSPX.

Thank you much for your concern.

• a d r i a n

You’re most welcome

Fraternally,

JR

 

[JohnVIII]

Oh! An eastern version of the SSPX.

You could say that!

 

[Aramis]

I understand that the Catholic Church teaches that confirmation (or chrismation as the Orthodox call it) should not be repeated, but only done once. I also understand that the Catholic Church recognizes that the sacraments in the Orthodox Church are valid. Therefore, is it wrong for a baptized and confirmed Orthodox Christian to be re-confirmed in order to become a Roman Catholic?

absolutely. Such re-confirmation is forbidden, if indeed the person was part of the Eastern Orthodox Communion’s faithful, the Oriental Orthodox Communion’s faithful, or the Assyrian Church of the East’s faithful.

Some of the so-called “Independent Orthodox” might not be, as not all Independent Orthodox bishops have valid ordinations.

Members of the EOC, OOC, and ACotE are received by public declaration of faith (including the Nicene-Constantinoplean Creed, and obedience to the Catholic Church), and receiving confession. That’s it.

 

[puzzleannie]

some of the chronology in stories here is quite confusing so I only want to add that the case of a person born in to an Orthodox family, baptized and chrismated is different than that of one born into a Catholic family, baptized but never confirmed, who later becomes Orthodox, and now is requesting to return to full communion with the Catholic Church. That is a special case and the pastor should immediately contact the chancery for advice.

In every case where someone Orthodox wishes to come into full communion with the Catholic Church the case should be referred to the bishop because there is the question of rite. The general rule is that he is received in to the Eastern Catholic rite that corresponds to his Orthodox rite, but there may be extenuating circumstances. It is not something the average pastor or much less RCIA director is competent to figure out unaided.

But no, canonically, valid baptism and confirmation may not be repeated, at most may be supplied conditionally if there is doubt that cannot be resolved.

 

[Monica4316]

I was baptized and chrismated Russian Orthodox as a child, and am now converting to the Catholic Church… the priest told me that I don’t need to be baptized or confirmed, and won’t need RCIA, but suggested other ways to prepare (gave me a book to read, etc). Once I become Catholic I’ll be Eastern rite, but there aren’t any Eastern churches around me at all and I want to ask if it would be possible for me to switch to the Roman Catholic rite once I’m in the Church.

 

[Aramis]

I was baptized and chrismated Russian Orthodox as a child, and am now converting to the Catholic Church… the priest told me that I don’t need to be baptized or confirmed, and won’t need RCIA, but suggested other ways to prepare (gave me a book to read, etc). Once I become Catholic I’ll be Eastern rite, but there aren’t any Eastern churches around me at all and I want to ask if it would be possible for me to switch to the Roman Catholic rite once I’m in the Church.

It’s possible, but not needed. Switching from one of the Eastern Rite Churches to the Roman Church is discouraged by the Congregation on the Oriental Churches of Vatican II; while not prohibited, it is actively discouraged in their post-conciliar documents.

Canon Law for the Eastern Churches specifies you make your profession of faith and of acceptance of the Catholic Church, and you’re Catholic, of the same Rite as before (most likely Byzantine), and in the particular church closest to your former Orthodox church.

Note that the profession of faith need not be done in a parish of that rite nor church, so long as it is in union with Rome.

Also note: any catholic of any catholic Rite or Church may receive the sacraments in any catholic parish of any church or rite in union with Rome.

Unless you plan on seeking ordination, or want your children to be Roman Rite, there is little reason to change the church of canonical enrollment.

 

[puzzleannie]

IOnce I become Catholic I’ll be Eastern rite, but there aren’t any Eastern churches around me at all and I want to ask if it would be possible for me to switch to the Roman Catholic rite once I’m in the Church.

you should work this out with the priest who is preparing you and your bishop, and the bishop of the appropriate Eastern Rite, before reception. Even if you are received by a Latin Rite bishop (or his delegate priest) you can still be in the Eastern rite, and you can continue to worship and participate in the Latin Rite parish.

 

[Monica4316]

you should work this out with the priest who is preparing you and your bishop, and the bishop of the appropriate Eastern Rite, before reception. Even if you are received by a Latin Rite bishop (or his delegate priest) you can still be in the Eastern rite, and you can continue to worship and participate in the Latin Rite parish.

thanks, I’ll talk to my priest about this

If I’ll be Eastern rite I’ll still have to follow their calendar and fasts though right? (I’m not sure?)

 

[puzzleannie]

thanks, I’ll talk to my priest about this

If I’ll be Eastern rite I’ll still have to follow their calendar and fasts though right? (I’m not sure?)

not necessarily this is why you must speak to the priest and he must work this out with the bishops

 

[Monica4316]

not necessarily this is why you must speak to the priest and he must work this out with the bishops

oki I’ll ask.

thanks for your help, God bless

 

[Aramis]

thanks, I’ll talk to my priest about this

If I’ll be Eastern rite I’ll still have to follow their calendar and fasts though right? (I’m not sure?)

If you’re in the US, probably, but the local ordinary of the appropriate church (not rite) of enrollment, or if no such ordinary exists, the local latin ordinary, may dispense that obligation.

You’ll be enrolled in a specific church sui iuris; without knowing which orthodox jurisdiction, I can’t even hazard a guess as to which one.

Within the US…
Russian Orthodox: Russian GCC; local latin ordinary
Ukrainian Orthodox (all variants): UGCC, Ukrainian Ordinary
Romanian Orthodox: Romanian GCC. Romanian Eparch for the US
ACROD: (Ruthenian) Byzantine Catholic Church of Pittsburgh, local ruthenian ordinary
Antiochian: Melkite GCC, local Melkite ordinary

 

[Monica4316]

If you’re in the US, probably, but the local ordinary of the appropriate church (not rite) of enrollment, or if no such ordinary exists, the local latin ordinary, may dispense that obligation.

I live in Canada

You’ll be enrolled in a specific church sui iuris; without knowing which orthodox jurisdiction, I can’t even hazard a guess as to which one.

Within the US…
Russian Orthodox: Russian GCC; local latin ordinary
Ukrainian Orthodox (all variants): UGCC, Ukrainian Ordinary
Romanian Orthodox: Romanian GCC. Romanian Eparch for the US
ACROD: (Ruthenian) Byzantine Catholic Church of Pittsburgh, local ruthenian ordinary
Antiochian: Melkite GCC, local Melkite ordinary

I was baptized Russian Orthodox… what does sui iuris mean? Sorry I’m very ignorant about all these things

 

[Aramis]

I live in Canada

I was baptized Russian Orthodox… what does sui iuris mean? Sorry I’m very ignorant about all these things

Each of the 23 Churches Sui Iuris is “of its own law”, or “Self ruling”… if you are RO, then you are going to be under the latin ordinary of the place anyway as a Russian Greek Catholic Church Catholic; your proper ordinary IS the latin ordinary; The Russian GCC at present has no hierarchs… and very few parishes. (Under 30 worldwide).

Upon translation, you can write the bishop and ask for dispensation to follow the Latin norms.

 

[JReducation]

In most countries the Episcopal Conference has an office that deals with the Eastern Churches. The local Latin bishops deal with them concerning Eastern Catholic issues and concerns. Every chancery has a canonist that knows how to go about all of this.

JR