Should our Bible have even more books?

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From what I have read the Catholic Old Testament derives from the Greek Septuagint compiled by Greek speaking Jews in Alexandria in the first century. I understand Catholic Bibles have seven additional books and additions to Esther and Daniel(Prayer of Azariah and the song of the three Jews in between 3.23 and 3.24 and also appendixes of Susanna ch 13 and Bel and the Dragon ch 14) that are not included in the Hebrew Bible which we call Deuterocanonical books. 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Tobit, and Baruch including the Letter of Jeremiah as chapter 6.My question comes from the nearly unknown fact that Orthodox Bibles generally include all of the books from the Septuagint. 1 Esdras which is 3 Esdras in the appendix to the Latin Vulgate along with The Prayer of Manasseh and 3 Maccabees and Psalm 151 are canon in the Eastern Orthodox traditions. 2 Esdras also known as 4 Esdras in the appendix to the Latin Vulgate is canon in the Slavonic Bibles thus regarded as canon to Russian Orthodox (In the Latin Vulgate Ezra-Nehemiah are 1 and 2 Esdras). Also 4 Maccabees is placed as an appendix to Greek Bibles. So my question is why do Catholic Bibles not contain these books? A growing number of study Bibles which contain the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical books such as the NRSV and the CEB contain these extra books which even our Bibles don’t contain. This lead me to wonder why if our bible comes from the same source are they omitted and also does the Catholic church have any problem with us reading books which are accepted by Eastern Orthodox Christianity?
 
I’ll be honest, I can’t provide answers to all of your questions (although I am interested in what they are). However, in the theological research I have done I believe that the Catholic church is the true church of Christ. Therefore, I accept their teachings and decisions that have been passed down since Jesus. Perhaps this is a good question to put in the “ask and apologist” forum?
 
jas84173 said:
From what I have read the Catholic Old Testament derives from the Greek Septuagint compiled by Greek speaking Jews in Alexandria in the first century. I understand Catholic Bibles have seven additional books and additions to Esther and Daniel(Prayer of Azariah and the song of the three Jews in between 3.23 and 3.24 and also appendixes of Susanna ch 13 and Bel and the Dragon ch 14) that are not included in the Hebrew Bible which we call Deuterocanonical books. 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom, Sirach, Judith, Tobit, and Baruch including the Letter of Jeremiah as chapter 6.My question comes from the nearly unknown fact that Orthodox Bibles generally include all of the books from the Septuagint. 1 Esdras which is 3 Esdras in the appendix to the Latin Vulgate along with The Prayer of Manasseh and 3 Maccabees and Psalm 151 are canon in the Eastern Orthodox traditions. 2 Esdras also known as 4 Esdras in the appendix to the Latin Vulgate is canon in the Slavonic Bibles thus regarded as canon to Russian Orthodox (In the Latin Vulgate Ezra-Nehemiah are 1 and 2 Esdras). Also 4 Maccabees is placed as an appendix to Greek Bibles. So my question is why do Catholic Bibles not contain these books? A growing number of study Bibles which contain the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonical books such as the NRSV and the CEB contain these extra books which even our Bibles don’t contain. This lead me to wonder why if our bible comes from the same source are they omitted and also does the Catholic church have any problem with us reading books which are accepted by Eastern Orthodox Christianity?
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catholicbridge.com/orthodox/did_nicea_II_confirm_the_canon_of_Carthage.php
 
Both the Latin Rite and Orthodox claim to be the one true church which the other left, so getting an in depth / collaborative answer is rather unlikely.

That said, reading other ancient non-canonical scripture for educations sake is a worthy endeavor. Just be careful not to give authority to non-authorized writings (meaning, don’t change your beliefs due to non-authorized writings).
 
Dmitri77 said:
Check out the broader canon for the Ethiopian Church. 😉
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Wow. I just happened to read some Book Of Jubilees yesteray that is Canon ONLY in the Ethiopian Church and here I find this Lol…

Regarding the original post, YES there should be more added books! Even if it’s of the Psuedoapocrapha. The Book of Jubilees for instance was referenced by many of the eary Church Fathers and in Canon itself, and even possibly by Jesus (supposedly regarding seeds and birds or something).

Why are added books good specifically? Well as a real life example - I’ve always been bothered by Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son as elswhere in the OT God says many times not to fo it. I’ve read into theories, even Islamic scholars which seemed to be ‘closest’ to the truth in this regard (as Jesus would never tell us to kill our children in a blood sacrifice on an altar). I was never satisified with answers because Abraham told his servants before climbing the mountain “we’ll be back” so Abraham obviously knew what was really happening. Obviously the Church already well knows but I cant access that kind of information locally or online or in English.

Well wouldnt you know, the Book Of Jubilees provides an answer. It claims it was Satan that told Abraham to kill his son. This shows would follow in the Job narrative of God allowing Satan to test his annointed. Personally though, I dont believe God is tempted or has direct communication with Satan until Christ is in flesh. I believe Abraham was great because he knew God and had descern between the two Fathers (Jn 8:44, Jn 8:38). Anhow… it’s just nice to have some confirmation. Oh yeas Jubilees also says that Angels helped gather the animals and bring them on the ark.

I could go, but the most valuable reason to have added books is so people stop taking the Old Testament as equal to the NT. With the OT, you really dont know if God is God, or who is who. The Church obviously knows, but we’ll never get access to those sources.

In light of the darkness of Freemasonry, Judaism, Protestantism, Satanism, Bible based paganism (aka American protestantism); I consider the OT to be the most DANGEROUS book in the world that should NEVER be in the hands of laypeople without hard hitting truths of how the book is to understood in light of John 1.

Second to that Apocalypse has claimed many souls as people have replaced their faith for with their own sorcery and obsessions from Revelation. People spending 20 years, 12 years in circles with Apocolypse. The printing press has done more bad than good in my opinion if you follow it back to europe but thats neither here nor there.
 
SnoopSword said:
Wow. I just happened to read some Book Of Jubilees yesteray that is Canon ONLY in the Ethiopian Church and here I find this Lol…

Regarding the original post, YES there should be more added books! Even if it’s of the Psuedoapocrapha. The Book of Jubilees for instance was referenced by many of the eary Church Fathers and in Canon itself, and even possibly by Jesus (supposedly regarding seeds and birds or something).

Why are added books good specifically? Well as a real life example - I’ve always been bothered by Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son as elswhere in the OT God says many times not to fo it. I’ve read into theories, even Islamic scholars which seemed to be ‘closest’ to the truth in this regard (as Jesus would never tell us to kill our children in a blood sacrifice on an altar). I was never satisified with answers because Abraham told his servants before climbing the mountain “we’ll be back” so Abraham obviously knew what was really happening. Obviously the Church already well knows but I cant access that kind of information locally or online or in English.

Well wouldnt you know, the Book Of Jubilees provides an answer. It claims it was Satan that told Abraham to kill his son. This shows would follow in the Job narrative of God allowing Satan to test his annointed. Personally though, I dont believe God is tempted or has direct communication with Satan until Christ is in flesh. I believe Abraham was great because he knew God and had descern between the two Fathers (Jn 8:44, Jn 8:38). Anhow… it’s just nice to have some confirmation. Oh yeas Jubilees also says that Angels helped gather the animals and bring them on the ark.

I could go, but the most valuable reason to have added books is so people stop taking the Old Testament as equal to the NT. With the OT, you really dont know if God is God, or who is who. The Church obviously knows, but we’ll never get access to those sources.

In light of the darkness of Freemasonry, Judaism, Protestantism, Satanism, Bible based paganism (aka American protestantism); I consider the OT to be the most DANGEROUS book in the world that should NEVER be in the hands of laypeople without hard hitting truths of how the book is to understood in light of John 1.

Second to that Apocalypse has claimed many souls as people have replaced their faith for with their own sorcery and obsessions from Revelation. People spending 20 years, 12 years in circles with Apocolypse. The printing press has done more bad than good in my opinion if you follow it back to europe but thats neither here nor there.
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How is the OT dangerous? How is Scripture for that matter dangerous?
 
jas84173 said:
So my question is why do Catholic Bibles not contain these books?

This lead me to wonder why if our bible comes from the same source are they omitted and also does the Catholic church have any problem with us reading books which are accepted by Eastern Orthodox Christianity?
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The Council of Carthage in 397 was the first official council to create the canon. There are bishops who had canon lists, but this was the first official council of the church prior to the schism. It is true that some modern Orthodox faiths (there is more than just Eastern) have some additions to the Library we call the Bible. Orthodoxy sees all of creation, including these kinds of documents as leading to God, as He emanates His love to draw all men to himself.

For Roman Catholics, the question was taken up at the council of Trent. At this time, the Dead Sea scrolls and many additional sources were not known. So the Council of Trent could not include books which were partial or not available at the time of the meeting.

Since that time, more ancient texts have become known. This is a good thing. However, since the books in the canon are only part of the doctrine of the church (the other being Tradition), the canon defined at Trent has proven to be really all that is need for proper faith formation.

Just like everything else the church has done, it will not be changed until another crisis of definition that this matter is re-opened. Until then, we can trust the church and her magisterium to guide us in faith formation.
 
JB_Brother_4446 said:
How is the OT dangerous? How is Scripture for that matter dangerous?
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I consider the OT to be dangerous to all humanity due to Sola Scriptura philosophy mixed with private 591c3 independant fundemental Churches, Tv ministries, American Evanfalicalism, ‘new’ American, and of course Freemasonry.

I have concluded this based on a fews years of rubbing shoulder with, and debating, all flavors or religion from Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. And this last year has been for hours a day in very intesive debate and learning.

I feel the OT is dangerous to the worlds safety, and peoples faith. It should not have put in hands of ‘just anybody’ because the OT will enable every carnal moral you desire. Almost everything is made legal in the OT if you want it to be. People are raising up murderes and rapists to the status of Jesus. People look to the OT for example of women in the Bible and bypass Mary. They read a single verse that Jesus died for their sins, and all of a suden this garuntees them heaven.

On the more serious side of things, Pew research said in 2014 that 82% of Evangelicals believe that Biblical nation of Israel and land was given to TODAYS Jewish people. It simply Amazes me how much people keep ‘turning back’ to the OT to nit pick some verses which they imagine havent come to pass. They’ve come to lose all respect for infant baptism because they claim its not in the Bible. They will take ANY word ‘Lord’ in the OT as the very same Father of the NT - the True triune John 1 God . Many, many, times they will learn about God from Isaiah or Leviticus when Jesus says 'if you’ve seen me you’ve seen the Father.

I feel the OT is divinely written with inspiration and God’s aproval. HOWEVER, I feel the OT is so divine and perfect, that God has literally placed within it a Punishment for anyone attempting to read it without the Holy Spirit. ie: God wanted Esther to be in the scripture to teach aristocrats and leaders how certain people on the earth operate to promote war and strife. Job is another that explains how Satans kindom works (in my opinion).

I’ve learned that Gods Holy Spirit is truly the Gods Word that is unheard and uneritten… that should not he confused with Gods Word pertaining to scripture. The Scripture is just a commentary on the Holy Spirit that dwells within us. All the Holy Spirit does is tesify to JESUS WORD (mostly) and the Spirit of Truth unviels Christ to us. So for instance, would Jesus appear to you and tell you to kill your children? Take other peoples wives and rape them? Kill babies and children? Smear Dung on your face?

Reading the OT you must have the ‘Holy Spirit’ well excersized and awakened to descern the Word of Scripture. To learn to see it as the earliest church fathers did - typology… I’ve learned these things through my own experience after spending some years in forum, chats, debate. often times hours each day.

I eventually began to realize that God clerverly inspired the scripture so well, its beyond human capability. There is everything good in the OT, and theres is anything BAD you can read into. Even the NT. God ensures to excersize our Free Choice in the bible itself. Notice how God leaves just enough room for people to create theories on Judas being the true savior, Jesus having the twin brother, todays Jewish people as somwhow ‘chosen’ and Gods very own people (which the Catechism says we are theough baptism).

The pitfalls and danger are buolt directly into the scripture itself. When there is no guidance, they will lead themselves to doom. Even Jesus says in John 5 ‘you search the scriptures because in the, you THINK you will find eternal life’. This is what people are doung today. Even with Mary its written in such a way to DENY the perpetual virginity. Despite what Luther or even Calvin might have said they have become too extrmem. These poeple and truly lost and truly DISLIKE the Catholic church… calling it demonic and from hell. I get that every day. No scripture in response is good enough. One Youtube video called “The job lie detector” brings up a theory and underlines the point in this post. He demonstrates that God himself says that 9 chapters of the Bible is a lie. He claims the Bible is the Mark of the Beast.

Think about it. John 6:66 they turn their back on the Catholic Church.
Their new canon is 66 books combined with 6 (number of man) = 666
And which is also Star of Repham. A hexagram a hex is a curse.

I would live to go into tons of details but I’ve been long winded so appoligize for that.
 
The canon of the script assures us that God’s canonical law approves an eternity of love.
 
kdbueno said:
The canon of the script assures us that God’s canonical law approves an eternity of love.
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I’ve been doing more reaseach into how Sacred Scripture should be read and understood. I now take it as a ‘truth’ that Scripture can NOT be understood outside of the Catholic Church. I think its CCC:105 (70).

I’m also beginning to take the position that a person must have a ‘Legal’ infant/child baptism in order to understand Scripture at all. Going to Catholic schools as children and teens without a legal baptism will not help them. Being baptised as adult and then willingly leaving the Church will not help them understand for some reason. (I have no experience with converted adults who stayed with the Church.)

Even if you guide them by Church teachings on the simplest passages, with historical evidence it’s ALWAYS been understood a certain way, they just can’t understand. Its like they hear but cannot hear. Its the stranges thing to see first hand as they can be very high knowlegable people in scripture. I only say this through my own first hand experience.

I also believe that anyone who rejects the full Biblical Canon as inspired, and proclaims the modern Judaism inspired 66 book canon automatically place themselves under a ‘curse’ - regardless of baptism etc. I cant explain this phenomina but I have definitely noticed this.

I have heard it said the 66 book canon is the number of the beast. 66 (canon) & 6 (man) = 666. I’ve seen first hand what Sola Scriptura does and how dangerous it is. Bibles are more dangerous in the wrong hands than i ever thought possible. So much so, that I’m thinking of selling my 66 book Bibles. I would never say this if i didnt see such bad fruit. ‘Christians’ who are seething and hoping for war and deaths in the middle easts. ‘Christians’ who do not care about their brethren in the middle east being persecuted, but who bless and praise a poltical… nah I’ll stop here.
 
Personally, I think every human being should read the Prayer of Manessah. Talk about a wicked man who was broke and begging for God to restore him. It was very moving.

I read 4 Esdras and was really intrigued about the journey of the soul after death.
 
The canon of the biblical script is based on the fact that its unchanging dimension has an imprimaturial integrity. In other words, the actual script and the eternal Word has a synchronicity that has a power that is based on the scriptural integrity of the divine Word of God. The Bishop cannot grant imprimatur lest he commits a sin.
 
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