Should some scientific data be suppressed?

[Nihilist]

Let’s imagine (hypothetically) a scientific study were made of IQ of various racial groups, and it was found, in a statistically and scientifically valid way, that group A was (on average) most intelligent, followed by group B, followed by group C.

Now, such a test could not have any social or practical utility, but would possibly encourage prejudices, if it leaked into the popular press.

Would the best thing to do be:

1. to suppress the results, either by claiming that the tests result was not valid (i.e. the IQ test was ‘culturally specific’);
2. to ignore the results, and level ad hominem attacks against the scientists making the tests;
3. for the academic ‘establishment’ systematically to deny that such testing is possible.

Any solutions?

 

[John_Lazarus]

Let’s imagine (hypothetically) a scientific study were made of IQ of various racial groups, and it was found, in a statistically and scientifically valid way, that group A was (on average) most intelligent, followed by group B, followed by group C.

First off, define “racial group”.

Would you do DNA testing to see how you could divide the races, or would you rely on skin colour alone?

Let’s imagine (hypothetically) a scientific study were made of IQ of various religious groups, and it was found, in a statistically and scientifically valid way, that atheists were (on average) most intelligent, followed by agnostics/irreligious, followed by theists…

No offense, but I hate questions like this.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Let’s imagine (hypothetically) a scientific study were made of IQ of various racial groups, and it was found, in a statistically and scientifically valid way, that group A was (on average) most intelligent, followed by group B, followed by group C.

Now, such a test could not have any social or practical utility, but would possibly encourage prejudices, if it leaked into the popular press.

Would the best thing to do be:

1. to suppress the results, either by claiming that the tests result was not valid (i.e. the IQ test was ‘culturally specific’);
2. to ignore the results, and level ad hominem attacks against the scientists making the tests;
3. for the academic ‘establishment’ systematically to deny that such testing is possible.

Any solutions?

No one can say that such a study could not have social or practical utility. Science is science. It is neither good or bad. The entire study should be published and critiqued, the same as any other discoveries.

 

[dshix]

Would the best thing to do be:

1. to suppress the results, either by claiming that the tests result was not valid (i.e. the IQ test was ‘culturally specific’);
2. to ignore the results, and level ad hominem attacks against the scientists making the tests;
3. for the academic ‘establishment’ systematically to deny that such testing is possible.

None of the above. There is never a good reason for suppression of scientific data. Science is a tool, not a political engine, and it should not be manipulated or forced to approve or disprove things based on political correctness. When it is, it leads to the destruction of the true, empirical use of science, which has already happened here in the United States to some extent.

 

[captainrick]

No one can say that such a study could not have social or practical utility. Science is science. It is neither good or bad. The entire study should be published and critiqued, the same as any other discoveries.

 

[Exiled_Child]

Read Cat’s Cradle, by Kurt Vonnegut. If something along the lines of Ice-nine was ever developed, obviously it would need to be suppressed. Humans are endlessly inventive and creative when it comes to weaponizing all their scientific discoveries, but at the same time the species has very little control over it’s actions. We’re easily carried away by our emotions, and are highly prone to violence, explosive rage, bloodlust, revenge fantasies, etc etc. Dr. Strangelove comes to mind…

 

[Jerusha]

No one can say that such a study could not have social or practical utility. Science is science. It is neither good or bad. The entire study should be published and critiqued, the same as any other discoveries.

Bolded above is especially true. I have participated in debates on this subject-- never mind where.

In debate on the subject, there are some very important points. The differences are not profound. The different bell curves have substantial overlap. We have no way of telling for sure what is environmental and what is heredity-- just no way of getting to it. The profiles of abilities between racial groups may be more significant. And, as Catholics, we know that in the eyes of God, a person with an IQ of fifty has just as much worth to Him as the person with an IQ of 150. So, just no reason to get all het up on the issue.

 

[Exiled_Child]

By the way, does anyone here believe that green tech has been suppressed by industry? Alternatives to fossil fuels, free energy devices, etc.?

Many of Tesla’s inventions are still being suppressed by the U.S. government, apparently…

 

[ThankUJP2]

First off, define “racial group”.

Would you do DNA testing to see how you could divide the races, or would you rely on skin colour alone?

Let’s imagine (hypothetically) a scientific study were made of IQ of various religious groups, and it was found, in a statistically and scientifically valid way, that atheists were (on average) most intelligent, followed by agnostics/irreligious, followed by theists…

No offense, but I hate questions like this.

WHAT???

Why in God’s name would we Catholics ever want to “divide” the races? Christ clearly wills for us to be one.

This is a scary concept to me and feels like a starter course in eugenics. Let scientific study be free to explore all the glorious characteristics of our various physical natures, but let us keep in mind that we are all created in the image and likeness of God. Is any of us foolish enough to think ourselves superior to the “dumb reflection of Christ” in this or that person or race? God help us if we do. Pride is man’s principal sin…

I truly fear for the eternal good of any who can’t see the intelligence, love and beauty that has come from the witness of countless lives (and heroic saints) of all races…

If anyone does feel superior to any racial group, please let me know which it is. In a spirit of charity, I’ll give you examples of Saints that, upon reflection with a well formed conscience, will make you feel like a wretch in comparison… It’ll be a good Holy Week exercise.

 

[ThankUJP2]

Let’s imagine (hypothetically) a scientific study were made of IQ of various racial groups, and it was found, in a statistically and scientifically valid way, that group A was (on average) most intelligent, followed by group B, followed by group C.

Now, such a test could not have any social or practical utility, but would possibly encourage prejudices, if it leaked into the popular press.

Would the best thing to do be:

1. to suppress the results, either by claiming that the tests result was not valid (i.e. the IQ test was ‘culturally specific’);
2. to ignore the results, and level ad hominem attacks against the scientists making the tests;
3. for the academic ‘establishment’ systematically to deny that such testing is possible.

Any solutions?

Completely hypothetical IMO… Such information could never be repressed due to the nature of man (human pride).

 

[inocente]

Let’s imagine (hypothetically) a scientific study were made of IQ of various racial groups, and it was found, in a statistically and scientifically valid way, that group A was (on average) most intelligent, followed by group B, followed by group C.

Now, such a test could not have any social or practical utility, but would possibly encourage prejudices, if it leaked into the popular press.

Not sure “racial groups” is a valid term, but if instead we say ethnic groups then the test most definitely will have social utility if correlated with education, housing and so on, since it indicates that group C is being given less social resources than group A.

As an example, for centuries it was said that on the whole, men are more intelligent than women, and as a result boys were educated better than girls, and so it was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Jerusha]

it was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In terms of IQ, achievement, and labels used in special education, this cannot be emphasized enough.

 

[CB_Catholic]

In terms of IQ, achievement, and labels used in special education, this cannot be emphasized enough.

Here is an example of this: I have a granddaughter who was diagnosed with ADD. She was given an IQ test in early elementary school before the diagnosis and tested borderline normal.
She was put on medication (her pediatrician, not the school, made the diagnosis and requested all the testing be done before he prescribed the medication) and the difference it made in her was remarkable. In 7th grade she was able to be taken off the medication and now has no more extra help in school. She does have some problems with anxiety, but she is learning to cope with that.

She has been making high honor roll–mostly A’s with an occasional B since starting in Middle School–she is 13 now. She is a good student and always does her homework as soon as she comes home from school and has her projects in on time, etc.

A conference was called and my daughter attended. They told her that because of her IQ (from elementary school) she would never be able to attend a good college and should aim for no higher than a junior college. They said she was a real overachiever, that is why she makes high honor roll and has such good grades.

Can you believe that a supposedly excellent school system would put such negative limitations already on a young child? Don’t aim for a good school–you are not smart enough.

My daughter was furious and told them she would never tell her daughter anything like that. She complained to the school board about it. My granddaughter has made remarkable progress with the ADD, can focus and function remarkably well without medication, actually applies herself to her studies, but the only recognition she gets for all this from the school is that she is an overachiever. Also, she is on a swim team, swims in Junior Olympics competition, and has learned much about concentrating and focus, and I highly recommend something like this for kids with ADD.

She is not a genius, but she is more that borderline normal in her IQ and has more potential than she is given credit for. After my daughter formally complained to the school board, they agreed to pay for an expensive independent private evaluation for her. Hopefully this will give a truer picture of her abilities before high school .

But I am just dumbfounded at what they had to say at the conference.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Given the hurdles involved (defining innate (genetic?) intelligence in a way completely independent from the developmental/societally influenced ability to perform tasks, defining race), I’m not sure such a thing would be possible. But if it were, I don’t think it would cause much racial tension, except maybe for a short time after the idiots heard about it. (And then I suspect it would involve, at the most, a small portion of whichever group came out on “top” demonstrating it’s collective intelligence by standing around holding badly spelled signs and shouting things that aren’t true and make no sense, while a small portion of the other groups held different signs and shouted back.)

But since all the sane people would recognize that value is not linked to intelligence and that the even should such results come out, that averages do not preclude exceptionally high (or low) examples in each set, and since people are treated according to their individual merits and not their race, I think we’d end up just getting on with things.

By the way, does anyone here believe that green tech has been suppressed by industry? Alternatives to fossil fuels, free energy devices, etc.?

Many of Tesla’s inventions are still being suppressed by the U.S. government, apparently…

Nope. And also, nope.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Let’s imagine (hypothetically) a scientific study were made of IQ of various racial groups, and it was found, in a statistically and scientifically valid way, that group A was (on average) most intelligent, followed by group B, followed by group C.

Sounds a bit dubious from the start. Categories of race are largely socially created and adjusted. Depending on where you live there seems to be a correlation between how one is racially categories and access to various resources including educational resources. Intelligence test have in the past been found to have subtle biases too.

 

[Havard]

Sounds a bit dubious from the start. Categories of race are largely socially created and adjusted. Depending on where you live there seems to be a correlation between how one is racially categories and access to various resources including educational resources. Intelligence test have in the past been found to have subtle biases too.

Because of geographic isolation, it’s clear that gene pools develop certain consistencies. No gene pool is truly isolated, so “races” are never clearly defined. But nevertheless, there is clearly a benefit to studying the characteristics of different isolated gene pools. E.g., genetic pathology.

 

[Rhubarb]

No, it should not be suppressed because then it can be discussed and explored properly. The example provided might seem problematic at first but there is serious debate about whether race and ethnicity even exists - biologically or socially. Some people might take the data and use it to fuel their bigotry but honest and fair critique of the data will yield interesting results from it. I think this is true of pretty much any study or findings. The data needs to be interpreted.

 

[JapaneseKappa]

Yes, but this is not the sort that should be suppressed. The kind of data that should be suppressed looks like this:

Hey! Here is an easy way to engineer a superbug that could start a global pandemic!

Hey! Here is an easy way to break the encryption on all computer systems in the world!

Hey! Here is an easy way to make a nuclear weapon out of parts from Radio Shack!

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Because of geographic isolation, it’s clear that gene pools develop certain consistencies.

Race classifications are not based on genotypes. They are based on a subset of superficial phenotypes and cultural attributes. The attributes used seem to vary over time. Skin color is often used, but skin color is a poor indicator of ancestry (see the attached image of the sets of twins as an example). Genes don’t necessarily fall on race lines. There’s also a wide genotype variation within the indiginous people of Africa (which are largely considered one race). A study of people with recent shared ancestry (the subjects of which may have varying racial classifications) might be useful. Though often times people don’t know their ancestry very far back.

A study of people by race isn’t a study of people by genes.

Pardon my mistakes. Sent from a mobile device.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

In a way, that hypothetical study isn’t so hypothetical. Something similar was already done in the 90s.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

For the most part, only easy to construct weapons of mass destruction should be suppressed, and even that of debatable.