Should there be a Jubilee for Puerto Rico?

[The_Old_Maid]

OK for moderators to move this thread if it’s in the wrong place.

A call for Puerto Rico’s debts to be forgiven.

The odds are that it is profoundly unlikely Puerto Rico will ever be able to pay its pre-existing debts.

That was before Hurricane Maria. Now it is a flattened landscape, what insurers would call “an act of God” if it happened to your hometown.

“Liberal” can mean something to politics. “Liberal” can mean something else to followers of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. If not for God’s extravagant generosity toward humankind, none of us would be saved.

So by either standard this sounds like a very liberal proposal. Nevertheless, is it a solution? What do you think?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I think many things should be done. They have wanted statehood for quite some time. I think that giving it statehood and making good for some debtors would be the most prudent thing to do.

 

[pnewton]

I do not know. Would this be best for the people there or not. I am all for extending them a helping hand and most especially for the short term to ease their suffering. But I have to remember that the citizens that live there could move anywhere in the country that they want to. To a large extent, living there is a choice. Some consideration should be given to the people of Puerto Rico so that their land can stay theirs.

 

[pianistclare]

My physician is from there. He says the politicians are so corrupt that Puerto Rico has no hope of every convincing the U.S. to grant them statehood.
Apparently, on that tiny island (according to him) there are more than 30,000 government employees who have literally stolen from the people.

Sounds like a tragedy all the way around.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

My physician is from there. He says the politicians are so corrupt that Puerto Rico has no hope of every convincing the U.S. to grant them statehood.
Apparently, on that tiny island (according to him) there are more than 30,000 government employees who have literally stolen from the people.

Sounds like a tragedy all the way around.

This is not unlike stories I have heard. My co-worker told me why she came to the US. She was playing on her front lawn with her brothers and sisters when a drunk, on-duty cop crashed through a fence and killed her brother.

They offered to send a handy officer to fix the fence.

They did not let anything be published about the accident–and the death was recorded as “childhood play accident”

She didn’t witness it but was close enough to hear…she saw him die. She said that is the day her mother decided that they were no longer Puterio Ricians and were going to take advantage of being allowed to go to America.

The corruption is deep…I do wish statehood, because perhaps it would help the people.

 

[pianistclare]

Very true, and compassionately stated.
But people of the US don
t like immigrants. That’s fact. People are shooting at Mexicans in their towns, and there’s not a lot of sympathy for them. Of course, they are not a territory.

The whole thing is really awful.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Very true, and compassionately stated.
But people of the US don
t like immigrants. That’s fact. People are shooting at Mexicans in their towns, and there’s not a lot of sympathy for them. Of course, they are not a territory.

The whole thing is really awful.

Things are very bad today, but in some ways, I see both sides. Near me, there was a town once known for its amazing integration. The French loved the German loved the Irish loved the Polish loved the Italians. It was considered one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the US.

Today, it is not safe for an anglo. The signs are all in Spanish, even the street signs, the billboards, etc. Even the “corporate” stores, are Spanish only. My husband loves “insert fast food”. We ordered online and went in to pick it up. He is so, so very “white”. They kept telling him “no order” and refused to speak to him. Someone spat on his shoes on the way out.

I went in, put my Native American skin and dark eyes and hair to work, greeted them in the little Spanish I knew and I walked out with the pizza and a 10% coupon for my next visit.

The malice they measure out is spilled over in the next town and returned twice as badly. It is terrifying. I avoid that whole area.

The thing about Putero Ricians is that they are often very fair (more fair than I am) so they are less targeted. Which makes the Dominicans hate them, I think there were other reasons but when I pulled apart two students employees fighting that’s about all I got. That made hiring fun.

 

[pianistclare]

I have a cousin in Puerto Rico He’s very dark skinned, No word form him or his children. We have no clue if they are ok.

 

[pianistclare]

You live in the US?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

I have a cousin in Puerto Rico He’s very dark skinned, No word form him or his children. We have no clue if they are ok.

That’s scary. I know that the Ham radio community is doing great work in communicating and they’ve had a ton of success in connecting family members. Have you tried that route?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

You live in the US?

Yep. Northern, too, so not close to the southern boarder at all.

 

[pianistclare]

And it’s all Spanish?
The Hispanics here get along with everybody. And southerners typically don’t like most “different” people. That’s a shame.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

And it’s all Spanish?
The Hispanics here get along with everybody. And southerners typically don’t like most “different” people. That’s a shame.

Yes…the entire city now…it’s basically taken over. One of the only times I’ve seen a grown man cry is when an elderly man at a Bible study, who was a first-generation immigrant who grew up in a beautiful French church, spoke of trying to return to the church he grew up in and discovering that everything celebrating its french building and heritage had been completely removed.

Granted, English speakers have done this, too, but I think the total surrealism of being “outed” by another immigrant in the very place he came to respect people of different backgrounds was too much.

 

[pianistclare]

So where’s the Bishop in all this? Seems odd to me.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

The corruption runs deep in the PR government. They looted the budgets and the bond issues for decades with little to no investment in the infrastructure. They took full advantage of being US citizens in a US territory, including the lax tax laws. The best and brightest who could bring the island back from the brink are mostly gone; they migrated to the US and are not likely to return except as visitors only. Between the debt and the hurricanes, the island is flat out ruined; it will be many years if not decades before it recovers fully. The debt holders are powerful and will not let go easily. Some forgiveness is inevitable, but as with Argentina, there will be those who will never willingly let it go.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

So where’s the Bishop in all this? Seems odd to me.

No one will touch the situation with a 10-foot pole. The highschool was declared one of the worst in the nation and the federal government got involved. It’s a bad situation all around, from the city government to the church…

…I worked in the town for a while, on a satellite campus of the school. A few guards took mercy on me and let me park in a special spot so I could reliably trust that I could come out to my car without my tires being slashed.

 

[Hereiam]

But, alas, herein lies the real travesty…Sure enough, many Americans seem not to like immigrants, but many of those same Americans don’t have enough knowledge to realize Puerto Ricans are not immigrants. Coming from a U.S. Territory to the mainland is no different from another American moving from Michigan to Ohio.

In many respects the dislike for Puerto Rican immigrants is like what Bishop Sheen said about non-Catholics thoughts on the Church…He contended few actually hate the Church, they merely don’t understand it.

So it seems, those who have disdain for Puerto Rican Americans don’t harbor bad feelings toward them because they are immigrants, its just they don’t understand that they are citizens.

The real test, however, is if they come to know that Puerto Ricans are citizens, and they still hold ill will toward them, there is something far more sinister (xenophobia, racism?) going on.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

But, alas, herein lies the real travesty…Sure enough, many Americans seem not to like immigrants, but many of those same Americans don’t have enough knowledge to realize Puerto Ricans are not immigrants. Coming from a U.S. Territory to the mainland is no different from another American moving from Michigan to Ohio.

In many respects the dislike for Puerto Rican immigrants is like what Bishop Sheen said about non-Catholics thoughts on the Church…He contended few actually hate the Church, they merely don’t understand it.

So it seems, those who have disdain for Puerto Rican Americans don’t harbor bad feelings toward them because they are immigrants, its just they don’t understand that they are citizens.

The real test, however, is if they come to know that Puerto Ricans are citizens, and they still hold ill will toward them, there is something far more sinister (xenophobia, racism?) going on.

Part of the problem comes from the cultural issues. Americans, as a whole, expect a complete “whitewashing” of culture for one to be considered American, with the exception of a few days here and there when it’s ok to celebrate your heritage.

Puerto Ricans, on the other hand, feel that they are American so they need not change their ways.

It’s far more complicated than simple xenophobia or racism, but is the heart of “what makes an American…American?”

 

[The_Old_Maid]

Well, we could ask, if it were Hawaii that had been so damaged by a hurricane, would public reaction and governmental response be the same, or would it be different? And if the latter, how? and why?

There was some talk in early October that the debt would indeed be eliminated, but aside from a few flutters of excitement it hasn’t amounted to much, as yet.

Sort of related: How you can help the pets of Puerto Rico.

I know, I know. People always fuss that we shouldn’t be worrying about animals until every last human has been helped. But that doesn’t reflect the spirit of giving as found in those who do both. People who help animals don’t do it instead of helping people. They help people, then they come up with the money to help animals by not taking a vacation, or by making their old car last another year.

Just a thought.

 

[tawny]

I hear the same things from my friends in PR. The corruption is so rampant. The politicians & business people who steal from the hard-working people all live high & mighty in their mansions on Vieques & Culebra. It is these people who fight against statehood, because it would mean paying taxes on all their holdings.