Should we switch parishes?

[Therese20]

I’m coming today with a very unusual topic. My husband and pastor do not get along. At all. They’re very close in age, so one would think there would be some common interests there, but ever since my husband became head of an organization and had to work with our pastor in terms of planning events, etc., things became tense. If my husband had an idea, it was immediately shot down or changed at the last minute after plans had been made, with little to no communication on the part of the pastor or the group members to my husband. We live in a rural area, so the parish is small, but even then my husband could never get the pastor to meet with him to discuss his concerns. Mind you, my husband has a very aggressive personality and sometimes says and does things impulsively. This has caused him problems at work as well as within our marriage. He had reiterated back to me some of his responses to our pastor and I tried giving him some advice on how to maybe deliver the same message but with a different approach and he wouldn’t listen. He would get offended actually, and stop communicating with me. The problem I have is that this pastor and I have always been friendly, and I respect him as a holy priest. He has always been there for me when I needed spiritual direction, etc. I used to work for him in the rectory at another church when he was newly ordained. He was then transferred to our current parish, so I do have that history with him and don’t ever remember him being “difficult”. My husband has since stepped down from his position within the organization and I feel bad for him. Things had become so bad that our pastor wouldn’t even look him in the eye anymore. It was awkward, because my pastor would talk to me after mass and carry our baby, but when my husband came around he would change or walk away. It bothers me that my husband was treated this way, but if I’m honest with myself I have an idea why. I know my husband isn’t easy to get along with. We have actually been living apart for a few months because things were getting out of hand. Since COVID-19, we’ve reconciled. My husband does have narcissistic tendencies, but since he will not go for therapy, I will never know for sure. My question is since we have decided to reconcile and leave the past in the past, should we find another parish during this pandemic? I’m not one to be easily offended and run away, but when we go back to our parish, will we be welcomed back because of what happened between my husband and the pastor? My loyalty must lie with my husband, even though I know how he can be. What is expected of me as his wife?

 

[Legend]

Sometimes, people simply don’t get along. It’s not clear that one is ‘right’ and the other ‘wrong’…its just a matter of not getting along!

Aren’t you practicing social distancing, for this pandemic? If their correspondence is largely online, maybe one, or both, have trouble communicating this way? Or just aren’t internet savvy?

Has your husband lost his job, or on a layoff, because of the pandemic? That can cause him to be depressed, or have low self-esteem. If this is so, it’s probably best for him to ‘wait it out’ before taking on new tasks…like the one with the pastor.

In any case, just try and take it easy, and maybe not take on many new tasks, encouraging your husband to do likewise. In any case, I will pray for you.

Do your best to take care of yourselves during this pandemic. God Bless!!!

 

[Therese20]

Thank you for your response. My post was in past tense, so I tried making it understandable that the situation occurred pre-pandemic. Sorry for the confusion. During this pandemic, we have been considering switching parishes.

 

[dollysro]

I think switching parishes is the least of your problems.
If this is the way he behaves with your priest, I can only imagine how he treats others, including you.
Perhaps it’s time (when the lockdown is over) to get professional help, for him, but if he won’t, for you, to learn to deal with him or find out why you cover for him.
I also tell people not to leave a parish because of the priest. The priest can change parishes but the parish is what it is.
Good luck in this and prayers for a wonderful solution!

 

[Annie]

I think you should stay at your parish for several reasons.

What will you be teaching your children if you leave? That the thing to do when you mess a situation up is to leave?

What will you do if your husband alienates the next pastor?

If you stay, it will be awkward for a while, but it will get better. You children will then learn that sticking through the awkwardness will get you through to the other side.

If possible, make going to counseling a requirement for your reconciliation, if not this time then the next.

As a side note: If there is any sort of abuse going on, do not reconcile. He is your husband but that does not give him a license to injure others in any way. Leaving an abusive situation is different from leaving one in which there is tension, we have the right to self-defense.

 

[Peeps]

I think it’s likely that your husband will have difficulties with any pastor at any parish. So stay where you are, and let your priest know about our husband’s personality disorders so that he is forewarned and can treat your husband with suitable compassion.

 

[tafan2]

It’s likely a minor technicality, but in most cases to switch parishes requires one to move. Parishes are territorial, we are members of the parish we live in.

 

[1ke]

should we find another parish during this pandemic?

First of all, your parish is geographic not “wherever you want to go”. So that is your parish.

That doesn’t mean you can’t attend other parishes, but they wouldn’t actually be your parish.

Secondly, I wouldn’t let my husband’s bad behavior chase me out of my own parish. He could just lump it frankly. You’ve written about him being a narcissist before. I would not be inclined to feed his narcissism and make the world revolve around him. Moving parishes is all about him. Forget that. I wouldn’t do it.

will we be welcomed back because of what happened between my husband and the pastor?

Who knows. But it doesn’t seem that you or he are “unwelcome” just that the pastor has no desire to deal with your husband’s bad behavior or cultivate a friendship with him.

My loyalty must lie with my husband, even though I know how he can be.

Um. NO.

First there isn’t anything to have “loyalty” over. He’s a big boy, if he can’t behave he takes his lumps. You do NOT have to live your life oriented to pleasing him, smoothing his way, adjusting your life around his messes. Just NO, NO, NO.

Just go to mass, be yourself, and ignore your husband’s bad behavior. You like parish and priest? Keep going and doing your own thing.

What is expected of me as his wife?

Not to cow-tow to narcissistic craziness, that’s my opinion.

My stepbrother is NPD, and I ignore him and his BS whenever forced to be around him.

 

[Therese20]

This is exactly what’s been going through my mind: we take ourselves wherever we go. You’re right. We’ll most likely have similar problems at the next church. As I had mentioned I’m not the type to run away, but it’s reached a point where, pre-pandemic, the atmosphere at church was becoming awkward. As I mentioned it’s a small parish, people knew and the tension was thick. I had started getting those pity glances and sympathetic greetings from fellow parishioners and it’s the strangest feeling. My whole life, I’ve never had problems at church. My parents were very involved and feeling that community has always been such a normal part of my church experience. I just focus on the mass the best way I can, but it’s the post-mass socializing that becomes the concern. People aren’t mean or rude, and still talk to us, but when they catch me alone, there are the concerned gestures, etc. The deacon’s wife, when hugging me even said, “poor thing.” I guess I’ll just offer it up and just focus on what’s important: the mass. Thank you for your response.

 

[Therese20]

I don’t have an official diagnosis, but I do know there’s some level of dysfunction present. I’ve done tons of research since living apart from him, and either narcissism or borderline are the most relatable personality disorders I could relate to in terms of his behavior. I think letting the pastor know would be wise. Thank you.

 

[Peeps]

I think letting the pastor know would be wise. Thank you.

The pastor may have some recommendations for a psychologist that could pin down the diagnosis and help your husband. Hope so!

I’m glad you’ve stuck with him. I think mental illness is so difficult to deal with in someone close to you. You have to balance doing what you can to help the other person, but you also have to take care of yourself and not allow yourself to be “used” or to become exhausted and vulnerable to illness, sin, and/ or despair.

 

[Therese20]

That’s been my problem and partly why I felt the need to separate myself from him. Things were getting really out of hand and I thought I was losing my mind. However, this time apart has allowed me to see things from a different perspective. I was too enmeshed with him in an unhealthy way. His opinion mattered more than God’s. Even if I knew what he was saying to me wasn’t true, I would allow his words and accusations to drive me crazy. Now I know I’m not crazy and that I was reacting to his behavior. Prayer and God’s grace have allowed me to deal with my husband via a different lens and approach. I pray I’m making the right decision, but I trust God will guide me throughout the process.

 

[Krisdun]

Perhaps the lockdown will give your husband time to calm down and time can start to heal any rift between the pastor and him. Also, have you seen how your husband reacts to a different pastor before? Perhaps a visiting priest to the parish?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Sounds as if the right thing is for your husband to resign from this organization.

 

[TC3033]

It’s likely a minor technicality, but in most cases to switch parishes requires one to move. Parishes are territorial, we are members of the parish we live in.

We haven’t found that to be the case (although technically it’s probably the way it’s supposed to go). For 6 or 8 years after marriage “we” were members of the parish my wife grew up in (which we didn’t live in). When our oldest got to be at the age to start RE, “we” switched to the town parish. After a few years they changed the RE program so we inquired about the program at the country parish. We received the info back and as as part of it were “encouraged to join” as they’re hurting for members. We didn’t have to move.

 

[Horton]

People with those sorts of personality disorders often engage in gaslighting their spouse or others close to them. It can literally make you think you are crazy. It is very difficult to live with a Borderline or Narcissistic as they have to be the center of whatever universe they happen to occupy at the moment.

I wouldn’t change to another parish. I’m sure after the pandemic and things get back to normal in parish life there will be some softening of feelings & attitudes.

 

[Krisdun]

Depends where you live. In a decent sized city you will likely live within fairly easy reach of two or three different parishes - obviously that will not be the case in a small rural town.

 

[Therese20]

I’ve seen him interact with other priests before and haven’t noticed any particular problems. Normally he complies with what they say then complains about it to me. I’m thinking perhaps it’s a power struggle since this is the first time he’s been given a leadership position in an organization at church. Father is a kind, pastoral priest, but is also very forward with what he wants for the parish. I remember thinking that it felt like a game they were playing. The harder one pushed, the harder the other would push back. It’s difficult trying to be a supportive spouse when you know your husband/wife isn’t acting very charitable. I would try and compassionately tell him that we have to honor the clergy despite how much we may disagree with them. His response was always, “True, but remember he’s also just a man.” I wasn’t raised to challenge priests to such a degree and I feel in my heart it isn’t right.

 

[JulianN]

I think his point was that, under canon law, there’s no such thing as parish registration. You are a member of the parish in which you reside.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If you tried to switch parishes,

1. You might still run into problems if your diocese strongly expects Catholics to be members of their geo parish, which may or may not be the case.
2. Even if (1) was not an issue, you run a risk that your husband will simply end up getting in some conflict with the priest at the new parish you join.

Since you indicate that your husband seems to have a difficult personality generally, and a possible mental health issue, I’m not seeing how things will improve if you change parishes. Best to just stay where you are and where you yourself get along with the priest, despite his issues with your husband.

The priest may be aware that your husband has some untreated mental health issues, and may be avoiding him simply to avoid possibly causing some upset or harm to your husband. He might even have a concern that if he sets off your husband in some way, it might make your own home life unpleasant and he wishes to spare you that.

It’s also likely that at some point in the future you might get a new priest. Priests nowadays do not stay at parishes forever and often they are transferred after a few years.

Finally, the vast majority of pastors are going to firmly put their foot down if some parishioner in a “leadership position” wants to do something different than what the pastor thinks is best. The pastor is the boss, and he will generally act like the boss, and he is not going to give in to some pushy parishioner. Nor should he. The pastor is the leader of the parish, not Joe Layperson, and especially not Joe Layperson with personality or mental health issues. If your husband can’t accept that what the pastor says, goes, then he doesn’t belong in leadership positions within the parish - any parish.

In my opinion, you would be better off focusing your energies on trying to get help for your husband or, if he absolutely refuses any help or treatment, to get help for yourself to be able to deal with your husband, not by trying to rearrange your life and contacts so your husband doesn’t have to face the consequences of his own actions that alienate others.